Cyprus-Forum.com

[Gertie]

The issue of property rights surely cannot be resolved until both sides acknowledge what happened between 1960 and 1974 and sit down to talk in a logical and coherent fashion. There has been expropriation on both sides and reuse of land by both so nobody has total right on their side. There are still a large number of us who saw what went on between 1960 and 1974 because we were there. Neither side has total right on their side. To resolve this issue will require concessions by both - including land ownership and borders etc. Rather than spewing hatred perhaps a little more rational thought is required - or nobody is ever going to get anything sorted out.

[bakala]

Gertie

would you like to recount how you came to be there and what happend . perhaps you can dispell some of the lies we have heard

[Gertie]

Stationed there with the family. Lived in Limassol and Episkopi.

I think its all very sad as I liked and still like people from both sides of this argument. And it's such a lovely place. Or was as I recall it. I often wonder where the people I knew at the time went to.

However, whatever the rights or wrongs as seen by people now - there is always only one way to resolve things - sit down and not only talk but listen to each other. In the end it has to happen or you will stay forever apart. Like our situation in Ireland - it had to come down to people talking to each other and trying to see past the past to the future.

Wallowing in hatred is like carrying a bag of poo around with you (if you will excuse the euphimism). It's something we all do to some degree with hangups from the past. No point - you cannot change the past you can only create the possibility of a good future. Forget "lies and truth" as well - lies or a truths stem very much from the point of view of the individual or a collective group. Prime example - one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Some see the IRA as heroic fighters for Irish freedom and others see them as murdering horrors. Some see the Greeks as the perpetrators of the problem (Eoka B and Sampson) and some the Turks (Invasion and land grabbing) - depends on where you stand and what you have been told dunnit, mate?

Anyway - enough of this proseltyzing I am off to have a cuppa and watch some trash on telly.

[cypezokyli]

welcome to the forum gertie

[andri_cy]

No one is denying that both sides lost people and possessions. I will go as far as to say that we probably both earn in school how bad and unfair other side is. I wasnt there when all that happened I wasnt even born. MY father was in the army and I know the stories he told me. I know the stories my grad parents told me too about how they had Turkish Cypriot friends they used to have sunday dinners with and how good people they were. So I know that they have bad people and good people like all races do. Was it right for them to do what they did? I dont know.
Lets presume that Turkey did come here to just save their own from EOKA B and Junta extremists. Well they did, no reason for them to stay and occupy part of the country for more than 30 years. They could have gone back home. So Turkish Cypriots might have left the south because they were afraid they would be lynched I dont doubt that. The same way Greeks felt when they left the north. But the truth is that the south wouldnt have to make use of TC land if the people hadnt had to flee their homes because they were scared they would be killed or sent to a camp and be missing and no one would know where they were. The refugees HAD to use the land in the south that was available. Where were they supposed to go? pile up in tents for ever? They never considered those properties to be their own. They considered it to be "borrowed".

[pumpernickle]

so where's good for cheap booze and fags then? Lefkosa?

come on guys, forgive and forget and embrace the free market!

[rawk]

andri_cy

I have posted this article before but perhaps you have not seen it. The Greek refugees do not consider the land that they live on now as borrowed! Read on.

Did you read this article in the Cyprus Times?

'Leave Then Be' says Greek Cypriot Journalist 21/03/2006
-


GREEK Cypriot Columnist Lucas Charalambus, referring to a demonstration held by Greek Cypriot refugees at Polemidia pointed out that while the Greek Cypriots were complaining at every platform that the Turkish Cypriots were building on Greek Cypriot land, the land that was given to the Greek Cypriot refugees despite said it was government land turned out to be Turkish Cypriot owned.

Slamming the political parties in the south and accusing them of hypocrisy, he said that the policy of all the refugees returning home was a myth and it had now collapsed.

He wrote that after 32 years almost none of the refugees want to return to their home.

Here is the Lucas Charalmbus's "Just let refugees stay where they are" titled piece which appeared in the Sunday Mail last week:

"WE HAVE been shouting and protesting for 30 years because the Turkish Cypriots have been building on our property. But the legitimate government (of Cyprus) gave us money to build houses on the properties of the Turkish Cypriots. And at the time they lied to us, telling us that they had given us state land. This was what was written on the documents we signed."

I retained these words, uttered by a frustrated citizen in a television news story about a noisy protest held last Tuesday in Polemidia by hundreds of displaced persons who had built houses on plots given to them by the Spyros Kyprianou government some 30 years ago.

In the same report, a woman, who was visibly angry, said: "We were fooled. They brought us here, gave us land belonging to the Turkish Cypriots and, through a life of hard toil, we built our houses on it, married, brought up our children and now they are telling us to leave and that they will give us a plot somewhere else. In other words, we have to start from the beginning again. We will never leave. We will stay here and if they dare, they can come and kick us out."

Similar sentiments were expressed by several other protesters. I consider the words of these people very important because they expose, in the most damning way, the absurdity of the policy we followed in the post-1974 years. The policy was centred on the nefarious slogan, 'All refugees will return to their homes'.

I will not refer to the hypocrisy of the parties in government, which, in view of the elections, are now proceeding with the issuing of title deeds for houses to thousands of refugees. These very same parties lambasted the former president Glafcos Clerides, accusing him of treachery, when, seven or eight years ago, he decided to issue title deeds. I had questioned the wisdom of this move at the ti¬me, predicting that one of the consequences would be to create resentment among all refugees who had built houses on Turkish Cypriot land; Tuesday's protest in Polemidia proved the point. During the Clerides presidency the patriots of AKEL, EDEK and DIKO accused the government of issuing 'title deeds' because it had surrendered the right of the refugees to return to their own homes.

The slogan about the "right of all refugees to return to their homes", with which politicians have been bombarding us for more than 30 years is a myth that has now collapsed, as the words of the refugees mentioned above show. It is blatantly obvious that today, 32 years after the displacement of large sections of the population, almost none of the refugees want to return to their home - I refer to the areas that would be under Turkish Cypriot control in the event of a federal settlement.

There are three main reasons for this. First, in the 32 years that have passed almost half the refugees have died. Second, those who were children in 1974 have now married and settled down in the free areas, where they have their homes and Jobs. Third, a large number of them have settled down in the government refugee estates or in Turkish Cypriot properties, as in the case of the protesters in Polemidia.

And the only thing they want is to be able to stay permanently there, in the houses in which they had married, given birth and brought up their children, as the angry woman said on television. I would like to stress this point because, as I had written in a column just after the referendum, this was one of the main reasons why they voted against a settlement and would do so again if they had to. These people are happy where they are today and do not want another change in their life.

That none of our leaders who have been dealing with the Cyprus problem all these years has been willing to take this harsh reality into account is the main factor for our failure to reach a settlement.

© Copyright Cyprus Times 2005


rawk

[cypezokyli]

and i have replied before.
loucas charalambous in this article makes a methodological mistake in the way he drows his conclusions

[andri_cy]

andri_cy

I have posted this article before but perhaps you have not seen it. The Greek refugees do not consider the land that they live on now as borrowed! Read on.

Did you read this article in the Cyprus Times?

'Leave Then Be' says Greek Cypriot Journalist 21/03/2006
-


GREEK Cypriot Columnist Lucas Charalambus, referring to a demonstration held by Greek Cypriot refugees at Polemidia pointed out that while the Greek Cypriots were complaining at every platform that the Turkish Cypriots were building on Greek Cypriot land, the land that was given to the Greek Cypriot refugees despite said it was government land turned out to be Turkish Cypriot owned.

Slamming the political parties in the south and accusing them of hypocrisy, he said that the policy of all the refugees returning home was a myth and it had now collapsed.

He wrote that after 32 years almost none of the refugees want to return to their home.

Here is the Lucas Charalmbus's "Just let refugees stay where they are" titled piece which appeared in the Sunday Mail last week:

"WE HAVE been shouting and protesting for 30 years because the Turkish Cypriots have been building on our property. But the legitimate government (of Cyprus) gave us money to build houses on the properties of the Turkish Cypriots. And at the time they lied to us, telling us that they had given us state land. This was what was written on the documents we signed."

I retained these words, uttered by a frustrated citizen in a television news story about a noisy protest held last Tuesday in Polemidia by hundreds of displaced persons who had built houses on plots given to them by the Spyros Kyprianou government some 30 years ago.

In the same report, a woman, who was visibly angry, said: "We were fooled. They brought us here, gave us land belonging to the Turkish Cypriots and, through a life of hard toil, we built our houses on it, married, brought up our children and now they are telling us to leave and that they will give us a plot somewhere else. In other words, we have to start from the beginning again. We will never leave. We will stay here and if they dare, they can come and kick us out."

Similar sentiments were expressed by several other protesters. I consider the words of these people very important because they expose, in the most damning way, the absurdity of the policy we followed in the post-1974 years. The policy was centred on the nefarious slogan, 'All refugees will return to their homes'.

I will not refer to the hypocrisy of the parties in government, which, in view of the elections, are now proceeding with the issuing of title deeds for houses to thousands of refugees. These very same parties lambasted the former president Glafcos Clerides, accusing him of treachery, when, seven or eight years ago, he decided to issue title deeds. I had questioned the wisdom of this move at the ti¬me, predicting that one of the consequences would be to create resentment among all refugees who had built houses on Turkish Cypriot land; Tuesday's protest in Polemidia proved the point. During the Clerides presidency the patriots of AKEL, EDEK and DIKO accused the government of issuing 'title deeds' because it had surrendered the right of the refugees to return to their own homes.

The slogan about the "right of all refugees to return to their homes", with which politicians have been bombarding us for more than 30 years is a myth that has now collapsed, as the words of the refugees mentioned above show. It is blatantly obvious that today, 32 years after the displacement of large sections of the population, almost none of the refugees want to return to their home - I refer to the areas that would be under Turkish Cypriot control in the event of a federal settlement.

There are three main reasons for this. First, in the 32 years that have passed almost half the refugees have died. Second, those who were children in 1974 have now married and settled down in the free areas, where they have their homes and Jobs. Third, a large number of them have settled down in the government refugee estates or in Turkish Cypriot properties, as in the case of the protesters in Polemidia.

And the only thing they want is to be able to stay permanently there, in the houses in which they had married, given birth and brought up their children, as the angry woman said on television. I would like to stress this point because, as I had written in a column just after the referendum, this was one of the main reasons why they voted against a settlement and would do so again if they had to. These people are happy where they are today and do not want another change in their life.

That none of our leaders who have been dealing with the Cyprus problem all these years has been willing to take this harsh reality into account is the main factor for our failure to reach a settlement.

© Copyright Cyprus Times 2005


rawk

Did this guy talk to every single Greek Cypriot refugee or found a couple that would make the point that he wanted to make and quoted them? I dont think that what he is writing is representing at the least the majority of them. I have seen the article before but I have not put any weight into it because I know a lot of refugees and 80% of them at least want to go home.

[lysi]

I see that on this forum it is ok for scumbags like the home buyers pressure group to advertise there website address, this will promote and encourage other greedy british people to buy homes built on stolen greek cypriot land and make it more difficault to find a settlement.
Why dont you greek cypriots complain to admin about this offensive group of theives ?

WWW.LOBBYFORCYPRUS.ORG WWW.MISSING-CY.ORG