Cyprus-Forum.com

[rawk]

Strahd You said,

"Modern day Greece and Cyprus are Democratic independent states both members of the EU. Enosis is history, there is no reason anymoe for that. EOKA B is history as well most of them are dead, or dying somewhere lonely. "

Precisely, the past is the past, we have all moved on, Greece and Cyprus have totally changed politically and socially. The old days have gone, people want jobs and spending money, not land with olive trees and goats, the world has changed.

The world has chabged and so has north Cyprus, all those things that you said about Greece and Cyprus apply there as well. It is not a time warp of 1974 memories that you can stroll back into on a whim from the EU. There have been big changes in the landscape.

I personally believe that those who lost their land and can show that they do not occupy seized TC land in the south should be compensated if that land is no longer available to them for whatever reason in the north. I am not a thief, but you have to face reality. Back in 1974, the Greek Cypriot population of this island had a choice between being Cypriot or Greek. They chose the latter and closed their hearts and minds against their Turkish brothers and sisters.

You can proclaim your shiny new democratic creditionals, as can Greece, but 32 years (and I give the benefit of the doubt on that) is hardly something to boast about in the timescale of a civilization that quotes 3500 years of history.

Perhaps your old EOKA B skeletons are history but I think there are a lot of TCs who would prefer to wait to see how this shiny new democratic Cyprus fares before starting to trust it.

rawk

[bakala]

A Bizonal Cyprus set up as two federal states whose only aim is to co exist as two separate states in peace is the only answer.

Anyone who thinks this is impossible is dreaming because that is the state of affairs right now.

Anyone declaring that a Bizonal Cyprus is not democratic enough knows nothing of politics,

Democracy by definition is where the Government serves under the people rather than over them, this is the state of affairs in the north.

In the South where there is undoubted pressure from outside applied the government serves over the people and always has done since 1960. Otherwise how did a Government turn on its own people?


,,

[bakala]

I dont remember the Czechs murdering anyone prior to the Nazi invasion ?
i thought it was just a straight forward smash and grab raid to swipe land
the professed protection of the germen minority living there wasent believed by anyone,



.

[bakala]

The first british expeditionary force went to France to help the french stop the germen Advance across Europe
was that an illegal occupation ?

[Strahd]

The first british expeditionary force went to France to help the french stop the germen Advance across Europe
was that an illegal occupation ?

Re baklava enough bullshit, as you can see there is a serious discussion now. Go and lock yourself in a Turkish army camp... maybe there you will feel safer from the EOKA vampires.

[Strahd]

I personally believe that those who lost their land and can show that they do not occupy seized TC land in the south should be compensated if that land is no longer available to them for whatever reason in the north. I am not a thief, but you have to face reality. Back in 1974, the Greek Cypriot population of this island had a choice between being Cypriot or Greek. They chose the latter and closed their hearts and minds against their Turkish brothers and sisters.

You can proclaim your shiny new democratic creditionals, as can Greece, but 32 years (and I give the benefit of the doubt on that) is hardly something to boast about in the timescale of a civilization that quotes 3500 years of history.

Well this is your opinion, mine is that those who occuppy TC property in Cyprus are placed there temprarily. As you saw with Mustafa who came back asking for his property the people who where occuppiying it were sent out to a new place and he got his house back now living peacefully. Well this is what will happen because this is the international law which is not a bazaar as Turkish foreign policy is (I give you this but you give me that).

As for the Turkish policy changed, well what do you have to say about the recent press releases about the continuation of the "casus bely" and the imperealistic policies on Cyprus. This is written by your own press. I will see a changed Turkey when the military is removed completely from the foreign policy decisions. But that I guess is gonna end up in another coup.

I hope for the good of the Turkish, Greek and Europeans that those nationalistic elements are removed from Turkey while she struggles for EU accession. It will benefit everyone.

[cypezokyli]

Back in 1974, the Greek Cypriot population of this island had a choice between being Cypriot or Greek. They chose the latter and closed their hearts and minds against their Turkish brothers and sisters.

is there anyone of you people , (and i mean the ones appearing the last month) able to make a distinction betwenn people and politicians ?
even worse is there anyone of you who can make a distinction between people and an illegal paramilitary organisation ?

i am very strict with my comunity bc imo they didnot do enough in that period. but on the other hand these statements are kind of too.....

i have a question for you.
we chose to be greek right ?
what was the need of the coup ?
why did those people wanted to overthrow the president with whom they agreed with ?
why was there even a need for a paramilitary group ?
bc, as far as i know when all the society agreed with that paramilitary group, whats point of it being illegal ?
lets say we all agree with the ideas of the paralimitary group, why the hell didnt we vote for them ?

just like i said to bakala in another thread....and not surprisingly he didnot answer , which is done at a constant basis :
how about i write the mistakes the gcs made in the whole period between 1955-74 , and you write the mistakes of the tcs in that time.

how about we do that ?
bc, i dont know what your sources are , but i absolutely do not see that in your posts.

or do you honestly thing, that there was a conflict in history where it was only one sides fault ? (that would be a breakthrough in history )

so what do you say ?

[pumpernickle]

Biggest problem facing Cyprus problem:


THE VILLAGE MENTALITY.

Too dumb to get things together. Too stupid to ignore nationalism. Fate = in accordance with 'what you reap is what you sow'.

[bakala]

cypezokyli

Sorry mate for not replying to your earlier statement about a conflict or war always being a two way thing, never just one side that start a war.
Well

i suppose the Dutch could have capitulated in the face of the German Invasion of Holland, same for the Belgians, and of course France,
Who all capitulated eventually?
Up until Axis Forces virtually ruled Europe or made none aggression pacts with those that they didn’t rule, Germany had waged a war of aggression simply to annihilate all opposition and remove any threat to the future security of his (Adolph Hitler’s) new Europe,

I wonder what the world would be like today If Britain had not stood alone for two years and defied the Germans. England’s refusal to surrender spelled out the Future doom of the Axis

As for your request for me to list one mistake that the Turkish Cypriots made
the most obvious one that springs to mind was the mistake of entrusting the greek Cypriots to be partners in the Cypriot Government, That really was an extremely serious mistake for which the Turkish Cypriots have suffered the consequences for the last 46 years.

How can the Turkish Cypriots trust the Greek Cypriots or Greece when they have instigated and maintained an embargo against them for all these years?
The Greeks profess to the world that they want to do the right thing and be fair. Yet they maintain political pressure to enforce an embargo that the rest of the world is starting to recognise as more and more politically unsupportable,
The embargo is becoming more and more Fragile every day. One day soon the dam will burst under the weight of growing public opinion, when it does any leverage political or otherwise that Greece or the Greek Cypriot Government has will disappear like smoke.

The Turkish Cypriots now face the 32nd year of embargo; they have refused to capitulate, why they should do so now when the embargo is on the brink of collapse.

Once the Embargo collapses the whole political situation will change dramatically exactly how, I am not qualified to predict, and neither is anyone else on this Forum,
However I bet teams of market and political analysts are already hard at work both sides of the border on potential scenarios.

The future is looking brighter for the TRNC and darker for the South maybe that’s why the Greek Cypriots are getting so excited

..

[Strahd]

Baklava there is no embargo... there are 40000 armed turkish troops stopping you from beeing free. Is it so difficult for you to grasp. You have been enslaved and put into this by mother Turkey so that the Turkish Generals can sleep peacfuly beeing sure that no Greek hordes are not going to invade anatolia from the sea of Marmaras... You are victims of yourselves. If you do not realise this, you will stay like this for another 300 years.