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Who have suffered more casualties in Cyprus? TCs or GCs?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Agios Amvrosios » Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:40 pm

it is getting us nowhere. and it bores people .


Do you think we go in this forum to entertain people?

My proposal is for pure unadulterated democracy.I think abizonal biethnic federation is impossible. If it was posssible it would have been in place by now. Its a TMT separatist's dream and subtefuge for ethnic division.

One referendum is an absolute must in relation to to deciding constitution.

The constitution must be democratic with no exception. This however would not stop subordinate laws dealing with affirmative action issues for Turkish Cypriots and others being enacted. These laws should comply with European Laws and the Turkish Cypriots should realise that they will be empowered and protected from discrimination by virtue of Cyprus' membership in the EU.

Some Turkish Cypriots are very undemocratic insisting that ethnic division and significant privilegesout of all proportion with their population are their birth right. If they are so against democracy then they should consider living in a military dictatorship.
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Postby bakala » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:26 am

Agios

Which government would govern the Turkish Cypriots in your new Utopia?
Would it by any chance be the Greek Cypriot Government?
It’s obvious that the Turkish Cypriots will never allow a Greek Cypriot Government to govern them; they don’t wish to have any influence over the politics of the south and don’t want the south to have any influence in the TRNC politics.

Your assertion that a Bizonal Biethnic federation is impossible, seems to have a flaw or two
Because its already in place except for the federation bit
Ethnic division is already in place on the island. It’s called north and south


The period pre 74 was in fact 14 years of civil strife and political upheaval, 14 years that proved that Turkish Cypriots and greek Cypriots cannot live together within the same democratic government, This forum is full of examples where the opposing sides just cannot agree on anything, they cant even agree to disagree,

The last shot was fired i believe in or around 74, though the politicians still maintain a continual sniping war against each othe, at least they are not using real bullets,
The last 32 years prove that an ethnically divided Cyprus can at least live as neighbours without trying to kill each other, Provided neither side are in a position to try to influence the others politics,

The TRNC is a republic independent of the South Cyprus government, it IS independent whether you like it or not, it’s called reality. As yet it is not officialy internationaly recognised, But recognition is on its way and i belive unstoppable

As for my comment about boring people
Seeing the old “you stole this we didn’t do that “arguments, resurrecting the same tripe from the past and keeping the pot boiling. Well yes i find that destructive, and boring


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Postby rawk » Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:39 am

Too right!

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Postby Agios Amvrosios » Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:11 am

Which government would govern the Turkish Cypriots in your new Utopia?


A democratically elected government. Is democracy so out of tune with Turkish Culture that this would be unacceptable? Are you sure you should be part of the EU, International Community and the human race?

Would it by any chance be the Greek Cypriot Government?


It would be a democratically elected Cypriot Government. Ethnicity should not play a factor. Policitical parties should be banned from discriminating membership on an ethnic or racist basis. This is the way to achieve a tolerant and inclusive democracy.

It’s obvious that the Turkish Cypriots will never allow a Greek Cypriot Government to govern them;


What if the government is democratically electected by all Cypriots of all ethnic groups? Again, are you saying that you do not respect democracy? Do you prefer endless hatred and non cooperation. Are all Turkish Cypriots against democracy like you.

they don’t wish to have any influence over the politics of the south and don’t want the south to have any influence in the TRNC politics.


This "north and south" ethnic division is an illegal breach of the Geneva Convention. You support the illegal breaches of the Geneva Convention. It is a war crime. North and South, east and west, it is 2006 get over it.

If the illegality of ethnic cleansing is subject to exceptions, what are they? I can find any. Maybe I'm looking up the wrong web sites. If you find an exception tell me please. I genuinely can't find anything. If you find a legal exception do not tell anybody. It may be used against you.

My ancestors and family are from Agios Amvrosios ,(you call it esentepe) Kyrenia. I have little and perhaps no connection with the rest of Cyprus. I stay in hotels when I am in Cyprus .There are mainland Anatolian Turks in my house in Agios Amvrosios. Which side of Cyprus should Cypriots such as myself call home according to you? I am not concerned with the local politics of the "South' either. I only consider the North home. Where would the many refugees who have had to leave Cyprus as a result of ethnic cleansing for God knows where with no connections to other places in Cyprus consider their homes. I know people who got onto the first available flight out of Cyprus after leaving at gun point and have never been able to return to Cyprus. Where would these people call home?

This is what ethnic cleansing is. In 15 years Turkey will deny it like the Amrenian Genocide.


14 years that proved that Turkish Cypriots and greek Cypriots cannot live together within the same democratic government, This forum is full of examples where the opposing sides just cannot agree on anything, they cant even agree to disagree,


In a democracy citizens must respect democratic outcomes irrespective of whether they agree or disagree with that outcome.

The last shot was fired i believe in or around 74, though the politicians still maintain a continual sniping war against each othe, at least they are not using real bullets,

Issac and his cousin were shot and killed in 1996. Was the killing of an unarmed civilian peaceful and cooperative?

The last 32 years prove that an ethnically divided Cyprus can at least live as neighbours without trying to kill each other, Provided neither side are in a position to try to influence the others politics,


How are we living as neighbours. Half the refugees of Kyrenia are in other countries becuase of ethnic cleansing. The word nieghbours is cheapened the way you use it. If you want to use the word neighbours you have to pay the price. The price is living in a democracy side by side, next door, accross the road and even in a share house with a Greek Cypriot, a Maronite Cypriot and an Armenian Cypriot.

If you are trying to say that "we can't live together" it makes me think you manufactured the violence and unrest as a pretext for a ethnic cleansing land grab.

You keep thinking of terms as this side and that side. We are all Cypriots. How can you say we are living in peace- Cyprus is one of the most militarised areas in the world per capita.
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Postby bakala » Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:48 am

Agios mate

The pre 74 version of democracy fell way short of my idea of democracy
The pre 74 version denied representation for a minority of Cypriot citizens
(The Turkish Cypriots) in Government Judiciary and the police.

Anyone who opposed enosis with Greece, Be it Greek Cypriot or Turkish Cypriot, were treated as enemies of the state in their own country for not supporting what was to them an undesirable ( not to mention illegal ) annexation by an outside government,
The 1960 agreement of independence specifically made Greece Turkey and Britain
And both Greek Cypriot representatives and Turkish Cypriot representatives Guardians and guarantors of that independence,
all parties signed the agreement.

Independence for Cyprus was se up like that to guarantee that no matter what happened no one including Turkey or Greece would ever control any part of Cyprus
Yet Greece tried to take over the whole island, the attempted Coup backed by Greece cemented the distrust of the Turks, Greece and the Greek Cypriots were warned time after time that Turkey would invade if Greece tried to take control. And that’s what they did

Let’s not forget ethnic cleansing started long before the Turks landed in 74 and if you deny it, you are delusional and need to consult a psychiatrist,
Foreign correspondents on Cyprus reported back to newspapers all over the world about the killings of the Cypriots both Turkish and Greek,

The Greek Cypriots killed for opposing Enosis were portrayed by the Greek propaganda machine as victims of Turkish Cypriots, which then justified the killing of more Turkish Cypriots. The problem was, everyone knew it was happening.

If the whole population of Cyprus had elected freely to become Annexed by Turkey, Greece would quite rightly Screamed “ foul deed “ and stopped it on the grounds that it contravened the 1960 agreement stipulation that Cyprus would remain Independent,

To this Day every single Cypriot North and south of the Border should get down on their knees and thank the Turks for keeping the island from being annexed by Greece
Because if Greece had annexed Cyprus the very name Cyprus would have been lost to History as it became another part of greater Greece,

What would have become then of the Turkish Cypriots who had been born on the island for generations or doesn’t that matter in your new utopia



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Postby Piratis » Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:22 am

Balaka, you are obviously totally clueless about the history of Cyprus.

All you are interested in is to secure your illegal investment in the occupied part of Cyprus and for this reason you have fully adopted the 100% of the Turkish propaganda without questioning even a single letter from it. This fact is proven by your posts in this forum. You first made the decision to illegally buy Greek Cypriot land in the occupied areas and then you searched and found the Turkish propaganda trying to excuse your criminal acts.

Saying all these lies will get you nowhere. You can't fake history just by repeating the Turkish propaganda for excusing acts of ethnic cleansing, human rights violations and international law violations. These things can not be excused. This is why the pseudo puppet state that the neo Nazis of Turkey have installed in the occupied part of Cyprus is illegal. And it will remain that way. And you will lose your investment. And you will pay for your criminal offence.
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Postby bakala » Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:35 am

Piratis Oh MY god

How the hell did you get out of the rubber room ?
And that nice white coat with the leather straps up the back and on the ends of the sleeves

I thought you were booked in for full years intense psychotherapy, to help you with your delusional psychosis,

You know that thing where you keep thinking a load of evil Turks have turned you into a teapot

Did the health insurance run out ?



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Postby Piratis » Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:49 am

I am an honest law obeying person and your offenses do not touch me.

On the other hand you are a crook illegally buying land stolen from refugees, trying to profit from the misery of others, as probably you have done your whole life.

Why are you suddenly involved in the Cyprus Problem Bakala? Why dont you admit that the sole reason of adopting the 100% of the Turkish propaganda is because it suits your pathetic illegal interests?

As a retired person this is your new "job"? Of buying cheap stolen Greek Cypriot land and lobby for the recognition of the pseudo state of the "trnc" so that you will have a high return on your illegal investment? Do you think we can not see this so obvious thing? Do you think that anybody here believes that you give a damn about Cyprus and Cypriots?

So let me tell you again. You will lose from your illegal investment big time. And by running around in forums, not only you are not helping yourself, but you are in fact increasing your chances of being among the first that will receive legal and other actions against you.
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Postby bakala » Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:57 am

...

Piratis mate
You really need to go back to the nice rubber room, its getting worse

You see it’s like this
You have a psychological problem its called “ a persecution complex “ its very common among greek Cypriots funnily enough
it starts with the delusion that the evil Turks stole something from you
Then they won’t give it back
Next you think you’re a teapot

Unless you let the nice Doctor convince you of the truth that most of your delusions (except the teapot bit ) are really lies, you will never get better, and keep having these Urges to rant and rave,

Unless you start back on the medication the next phase of your illness will include
Assertions of Alien spacemen disguised as Brits wanting to cheat and rob you as a prelude to kidnapping you so they can mate you with a coffee grinder.


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Postby andri_cy » Fri Mar 24, 2006 5:07 am

bakala wrote:...

You have a psychological problem its called “ a persecution complex “
..



Thats a bit of a personal thing to say to someone you never met dont you think? Almost a :oops: personal attack
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