Cyprus-Forum.com

[rawk]

Piratis I did not introduc the idea of GCs being fools in this discussion, Birkibrisli decided to respond to my signature statement and put his own interpretation on it which I responded to. As for your comment: -

And by running around in forums, not only you are not helping yourself, but you are in fact increasing the chances of being among the first that will receive legal and other actions against you.

Is that a threat to chase us off these forums, to still our voices because we speak what you do not wish to hear?
So much for democratic credentials then! As for legal action, I always thought that the solution to the Cyprus problem would be a political one and not a legal one and as I'm not actually on hobnobbing terms with Jack Straw, Talat or Papadopolous, so I don't really believe I'll figure in that one.

Sotos I don't know anyone in The Home Buyers Association, I don't know any of them, I have never been to any of their meetings and what they do or say is of no concern of mine. As for describing myself, mrfromng and bakala as thieves, I don't think so, I always pay my way, except of course when mrfromng offers to pay first.

rawk

[rawk]

bakala

I've been thinking about some of the comments posted about being a thief on this forum and it reminded me about some lyrics of Hendrix, as in "All along the Watchtower"


There must be some kind of way out of here
said the joker to the thief
There's too much confusion
I can't get no relief
Businessman they drink my wine
ploughmen dig my earth
No one will level on the line
nobody of it is worth
Hey hey
No reason to get excited
the thief he kindly spoke
there are many here among us
who feel that life is but a joke but uh
but you and I we've been through that
and this is not our fate
so let us not talk falsely now
the hour's getting late
hey
hey
All along the watchtower
princes kept the view
while all the women came and went
bare-foot servants to, but huh
outside in the cold distance
a wild cat did growl
Two riders were approachin'
and the wind began to howl
hey
oh
All along the watchtower
hear you sing around the watch
Gotta beware gotta beware I will
yeah
ooh baby
all along the watchtower

Cool eh!

rawk

[MR-from-NG]

They are Turkish citizens victims of Turkey. Most Turkish citizens are victims of their military ruled country.

By the same token that makes you a victim of the Greek Junta. The misery you are facing today is the direct result of Greece and it's generals and of course EOKA. I don't see you mentioning these evil bastards in any of your posts, or is it all forgotten by now?

[MR-from-NG]

Nice one Bakala,

I will be playing this track on full volume tonight. Thin lizzy will follow. May the good times roll.

[cypezokyli]

if i am not mistaken "all along the watchtower" belongs to bob dylan. i dont think hentrix needed to steal songs, he had enough good ones himself

[MR-from-NG]

Yes you are right cypezokyli, it is Dylan. Jimi did an excellent job though. it's a classic.

Artists pay royalties and do covers of songs, it's hardly stealing.

[rawk]

cypezokyli

You're absolutely right, Bob was the author, but Hendris made the song. Hendrix is one of favourite artists. Bob Dylan also, even when he got religion the songs still contained a majesty.
A favourite of mine is "The Disease of Conceit"

There's a whole lot of people suffering tonight
From the disease of conceit.
Whole lot of people struggling tonight
From the disease of conceit.
Comes right down the highway,
Straight down the line,
Rips into your senses
Through your body and your mind.
Nothing about it that's sweet,
The disease of conceit.

There's a whole lot of hearts breaking tonight
From the disease of conceit,
Whole lot of hearts shaking tonight
From the disease of conceit.
Steps into your room,
Eats your soul,
Over your senses
You have no control.
Ain't nothing too discreet
About of disease of conceit.

rawk

[Tony-4497]

define "asia". somehow i get a degrading atmosphere

not about degrading anyone.. Turkey will choose to either join the EU countries or it will follow its immediate neighbours on the other side, i.e Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan etc

what makes us more "europeans" than the turks ?

for starters, respect of european values, such as the rule of law, human rights, adhering to ECHR decisions UN resolutions etc etc

dont be too sure , that turkey is willing to sacrifice everything. we ofcource have improved our position with the EU entry but dont overestimate how far you can extent your hand. moreover dont forget the likely pressure we will receive from our EU allies if we alone try to block turkeys accession.

I am not too sure that Turkey will "sacrifice" anything (and by that I am guessing you mean handing back part of the stolen goods robbed by force from Cyprus)

What I am dead sure about is that Turkey will not even get close to entering the EU without first achieving a solution in Cyprus which is acceptable to GCs. This solution will have to be much, much better than the Annan plan to be acceptable.

That is why I said that Turkey will eventually have to make a choice - my expectation is that it will choose to accept a solution in Cyprus which can be accepted by GCs and join the EU, rather stay out of it and keep the occupied areas as a Turkish province.

lastly, dont forget that it not in our interest for turkey not to have the EU target. if they miss that target then forget about reunification.

Of course it isn't - that is why we let them start negotiations.

But make no mistake - the objective of this process is the Europeanisation of Turkey and not the Turkification of the EU

If Turkey does not start to gradually respect EU law etc its process will stop in its tracks.

The first big test will be before the end of the year - I firmly believe that unless Turkey opens its ports to Cyprus traffic, its progress will freeze until it decides to comply.

This will be the approach for all matters down the line. Soon Turkey will realise that without a solution not only can it not enter the EU eventually, but no significant progress will be achievable either.

[cypezokyli]

we will be here till the end of the year i believe.

what would you say its our minimum goals ? if it goes below that we put a veto.
just to see how tough we can be / should be.

i would guess we dont demand a solution of the cyppro till the end of the year...

[Tony-4497]

the minimum goal for 2006 is the opening of ports etc, as stated

if Turkey does not do this, its progress will either freeze or slow down to a degree close to freezing

I don't believe that we will need to use the veto for this - this is all about convincing our EU partners of the validity of our arguments so that no use of a veto will be necessary - even the UK, Turkey's biggest supporter is telling her she has to open the ports.. of course, if push comes to shove, we should use the veto

as for the timing of solving the problem - Turkey cannot afford to do this so early in the process.. accepting a fair solution in Cyprus (i.e. as opposed to the Annan plan which simply rewarded Turkey for the occupation) is ironically seen by Turks as a "concession"

- accordingly Turkey will only be prepared to accept such a solution further down in the process, and after it has received a degree of comfort that it will eventually be accepted in the union - this would make it easier to sell internally and will also provide more comfort with respect to the protection of TCs in the new arrangement

any solution that Turkey can accept before then will be similar to the Annan plan and hence unacceptable to GCs - the only exception being an 80:20 confederation (i.e. Annan plan with slightly increased bizonality and fair land sharing, based on population percentages)