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[brother]

MIKKIE these comments are from respected european journalists, read and LEARN and then comment.

    OBSERVATIONS BY FOREIGNERS


The Mathiati Massacre

The brutality in Mathiati village of Nicosia where 208 Turks lived was expressed as below by Gibbons:

"(...) three Turks were seriously injured at the first minutes. When Turks burst out of their white, small houses into the streets, the screaming and cursing crowd began to push and kick them along the way. The terrified Turks who fell down on the floor as a result of riffle butt strikes were dragged across the streets while the crowd stormed into houses, pulled burning logs out of the furnaces and set curtains and beds on fire. The old wooden roof beams were surrounded by smoke and then flames. Barefoot women mostly in nightgowns were also pushed here and there on the burning streets, either holding tight their terrified little babies or with their toddlers catching the ends of their nightgowns or trousers and following them together with others dragging their injured away.

Greek youngsters host at the houses hysterically and yelled madly with hoarse voices. Before the flames completely covered the houses, they materialized into the houses, broken things and grabbing valuable goods. The wild sounds coming from the back of the houses attracted he attention of the assailants to the animals of Turks. They stomped into the barns and raked cows, sheep and goats with machine guns. They threw the chickens into the air and shot them while they desperately cackled and struggled. Their bodies broke into pieces and feathers covered everywhere.

The crowd screamed and yelled in a bloodthirsty manner. Turks were dragged through the frozen streets out of the village. They were left in pain around Kochatis, another Turkish village. The Kochatis villagers hurried out of their houses to help their neighbors while the crowd headed back to Mathiati to continue the plunder and all the madness". (H. Scott Gibbons, Peace Without Honor, Ankara, 1969, p. 31).

Ayvas?l Massacre

Gibbons observations on the Ayvas?l (Ayios Vasilios) village massacre quotes as follows:

"Weapon sounds were heard. They broke locked doors with rifle butts and dragged people onto the streets. A 70 year-old Turk awoke to the sound of its broken front door. He teetered out of his bedroom before he was asked if he had any children by many youngsters with arms. Dumbfounded, he pronounced "Yes". "Send them out" they ordered. Tow sons of his, 19 and 17, and her only daughter, 10 got dressed hurriedly and followed the armed men out.

They were lined up near the farm fence and shot dead with machine guns by those armed men. In another house, they found a 13 year-old boy, tied his hands at his back, knelt him down. They plundered the house, kicked and raped the boy and shot him at the head.

That night, 12 Turks were slaughtered in Ayios Vasilios. Others were gathered and pushed out of the village to take refuge in Turks in Skylloura. Barefooted, with their pajamas and nightgowns on, they teetered to proceed in the cold. The Greek cypriots fired at them in the dark.

The armed men headed for the Turkish houses. They plundered and destroyed the houses and when they got exhausted, they set the houses on fire. Nine more Turks that lived in the surrounding farmhouses were killed in the same region". (H. Scott Gibbons, Peace Without Honor, p. 73).

The Kumsal Massacre

Gibbons wrote as follows about the Kumsal massacre:

"Armed men broke the doors and stormed into Turkish houses, kicking, beating, punching and cursing at them. The retreat from Kumsal began. Once more, dazed and appalled families that resembled those facing debacle in Europe by Nazi attacks were on cold streets rifles burst and machine guns raffled.

They were slipping and falling down. They began to run away, seeking support from one another. The screams of a woman echoed on the street, who squealed "Is not there anyone to help, Gor God's sake?"

159 inhabitants of Kumsal Turks could not make it to run away that night. Four people in the bathroom were killed apart from the landlady and four other people. 150 people were taken hostage. No one ever saw some of the hostages again. (H. Scott Gibbons, Peace Without Honor, p. 74).

Observations by an Italian Journalist

In January 1964, an Italian journalist in Cyprus made the following observations:

"Right now, we are witnessing the migration of Turks from their villages. The Greek cypriot Terror is ruthless; thousands of people are leaving their houses, lands and flocks. The Hellenistic claims and Plateau can not conceal these savage and barbarous behaviors. Curfew starts in Turkish villages everyday at 16:00 p.m. As soon as darkness falls, threats, weapon sounds and attempts of arson begin. Any resistance seems impossible after the Christmas slaughter which spared neither women nor kids (Giorgio Bocca, I?l Giorno, 14 January 1964).

Observations by an American Journalist

Time Journalist Robert Ball wrote the following about the incidents in Ayios Sozomenos village of Nicosia:

"The most severe clash took place at the western side of the village on which Greek cypriots had attacked by taking advantage of the dense round olive trees. The window of an adobe house which sheltered 9 Turks was blown up with a bazooka shell and its second floor was riddled because of bullet holes.

A Turkish shepherd who desperately raced to the river bed to escape was shot a few steps away from the door. Another tried to attack the Greeks pointlessly with a pitchfork in his hand and was killed immediately". (Robert Ball, Time, 14 February 1964).

Observations by an British Journalist

"After Cyprus was occupied, hundreds of Cypriot Turks were taken hostage by National Guardsmen, Turkish women were raped, kids were killed on the streets and Turkish quarters in Limasol were totally burned down". (David Leigh, The Times, London, 23 July 1974).

Observations by a German Tourist

"Human mind can not comprehend the barbarism of Greeks... Greek National Guardsmen represented extraordinary examples of brutality. They broke into Turkish houses; they ruthlessly shot women and children; cut the throats of many Turks and gathered and raped Turkish women... (Germany's Voice, 30 July 1974).


Quotes from Crushed Flowers

"Greek cypriots behaved barbarously in the 20th Century and exercised massacres. They not only slaughtered Turks in a bloodthirsty manner but also buried them half alive. Many corpses in this mass grave unfolds the Greek brutality to the people of the world. The corpses disentombed out of the mass graves were evident of how vile Greeks were and the feudal laws that had been applied by them for years..." (James Rayner, Crushed Flowers, Nicosia, 1982, p. 25).


And these were the least barbaric i choose to show you, investigate and you will see worse.

[Piratis]

The Turks killed and raped throughout their history. When they first came to Cyprus they massacred the whole population of Famagusta. We know what they did, and the other Europeans know from their own histories what the Turks were like. They don't need us to teach them.

No matter what you say, you will find nothing to compare with the 6000 dead + 1500 missing + 200.000 refugees we had in 1974. If we go deeper into history and we see at the Armenian and the other genocides that Turks committed, your numbers seem like nothing.

I really don't like to talk about the past. I want to talk about the future. But when you count one by one every one of your couple of hundred dead to make your propaganda, when at the same time you nation killed thousands and millions, you provoke us and give us no choice.

[Bananiot]

What are you talking about? We are supposed to be Cypriot and the only way to go about it is to condemn all acts of barbarism that are committed. Lets not hide our guild behind others by looking to see who started what. It is an absurd argument to go back to history because then I would say that the Greeks violated my home first when they colonised Cyprus some centuries ago. This is a rediculous argument. So, instead of looking for excused, Piratis, you should condemn outright the butchers who sloughtered innocent people, be they greek or turkish cypriot. They are responsible for our predicament and none of them has paid for his crimes. In fact, some of them are high standing figures, in our respective societies.

[-mikkie2-]

Brother,

Lets not get emotional here.

Can you provide dates for the excerpts you posted? I am not disputing that these events happened, its just that I think they occurred before early '64.

The period between 64-74 was relatively calm, aside from paramilitary attacks between armed units of both communities.

Most of the intercommunal violence was from the late 50's to early '64.

[-mikkie2-]

The foreign minister of Turkey sends a letter to Guntner Verheugen regarding the EU commission report and asks the following:

"Referring to an additional point in his letter, Gul explains that the report has not clarified the nature of the serious human rights and democracy violations that may lead to the suspension of the negotiations."

Now, he is trying to find out to what level the EU will tolerate human rights violations in Turkey! Or to what level they would tolerate the Army meddling in their 'democracy'?

The cheek of the man. As if enough convictions in the ECHR and the UN are not enough!

Its like he is going to a school teacher to ask what he is or isn't allowed to do! Is that how a 'mature' state conducts their affairs?

[brother]

MY FAMILY WAS WIPED OUT IN 1974, AND THERE GRAVES ARE STILL UNMARKED.
THIS IS FACT NOT FICTION.

AS FOR PIRATIS YOU ALWAYS LOOK FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT THE PAST BUT FIRST LOOK AT YOUR OWN UGLY PAST AND SEE AS CYPRIOTS WHAT YOU HAVE DONE TO OUR RESPECTIVE COMMUNITIES.

EOKA KILLED THE ENGLISH, GC AND TC AND NOW YOU STOP TO SUGGEST OTHERWISE.

ARMENIAN GENOCIDE IS ABSOLUT FICTION AS THE REAL FIGURE OF DEATHS IS NEARLY 5 MILLION TURKS AND CONTINUED INTO BOSNIA IN TODAYS CIVILISED SOCIETY, AND WHAT DID THE DEFENDERS OF HUMANITY THE E.U DO, NOTHING THEY WATCHED PEOPLE GET ETHNICLY CLEANSED AND GET BURIED IN MASS GRAVES(DEJAVU THE SAME HAPPENED IN CYPRUS TO US TC TOO)

SO GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND TALK TO ME ABOUT THE FUTURE WHERE THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN AND PEOPLE TRY TO BRING PEACE AND NOT BLACKMAIL WITH VETO AS THIS IS NOT THE WAY FORWARD.

[-mikkie2-]

Brother,

I seem to have touched a raw nerve!

I am asking you to be objective and to stop and think rationally, not emotionally.

I said there was relative calm between the communities after early '64 to 1974, meaning 1974 before the coupe and the invasion. Obvioulsy during the invasion, the Turks did untold things, and yes, bad things happened to TC's during the invasion also.

I am not disputing that these events occurred!

I am talking about the period AFTER xmas 63 and before summer 74.

Now, all I am saying is that during that period we lived in relative calm.

And I think that is what Papadopoulos was refering to. So, the question is, is that correct or not?

[brother]

mikkie that is not correct even though more isolated they were occuring, as for hitting a raw nerve, well yes my family suffered we lost a lot of family, and all our properties/lands etc.

To me and many like myself tassos remarks are very hurtful and disturbing and under no circumstances should he talk like that.

Its like turkeys president saying 'in 1974 only a few hundred gc were captured and noone was killed, it all happened before we got there'
this would be a lie and insultive to the people that lost family and would show a total disrespect to the other community.

[metecyp]

I am talking about the period AFTER xmas 63 and before summer 74.

Now, all I am saying is that during that period we lived in relative calm.

And I think that is what Papadopoulos was refering to. So, the question is, is that correct or not?

Wasn't there a battle at Erenkoy where many TC villages were surrounded by Greek and GC soldiers in 1964? And then Turkey sent jets and bombed the area. Also in 1967, some incidents happenned in Gecitkale (Kofunye?) where Grivas attacked some TC villages.

I'm not sure of the details but it wasn't relatively calm between December 1963 and summer of 1974. From what I heard from my dad, things started getting normal starting from 1968.

[-mikkie2-]

Yes, there were incidents between those periods, but they were mainly between armed paramilitary units of both communities. In any case, these incidents cannot be compared with the intercommunal violence that occurred until late 63/ early 64.

And brother, I do not mean to be insulting. I know that terrible things happened to both communities during the invasion. My family lost people too.