Cyprus-Forum.com

[cypezokyli]

Tony-4497
I believe that the Republic should respect the 1960 constitution and allow its law-abiding TC citizens to have their constitutional, property and other rights.

At the same time, citizenship carries obligations as well as rights.

I am sure that there must be a law in the 1960 constitution which would suggest that any RoC citizens who live or have lived in the occupied areas, have received a "TRNC" "citizenship", paid taxes to "TRNC" etc, have committed a very serious crime (possibly treason) against their country of citizenship RoC, as they have actively supported the invaders and occupiers of the RoC and the illegal entity set up on land stolen from the RoC. These people have been paying taxes which have been used to buy guns for use against their country of citizenship!!

Accordingly, to obey the 1960 constitution, the RoC should arrest the 78 TCs, organise a fair trial to examine possible crimes committed against the RoC (as above), make them serve any applicable sentence, and allow them to vote and stand for election upon release from jail.

NOW WHY CANT WE HAVE MORE OBJECTIVITY LIKE TONY INSTEAD OF OVER INFLATED PATRIOTISM?
This is a debate, not an attacking ground. Thank you Tony you speak sense on this issue.

you are new in the forum djtrax98, with tony we are arguing the whole time , but if thats not overfloated patriotism then what is it ?

i mean are you people serious???!!!!

firstly as sadik said, who should start with the gcs that didnot leave. the only people in cyprus that actually are fullfilling their "patriotic" duty.

second there are tcs that used to leave in the north before the war. so we demand from them to leave their house, and come to the south..great idea

third, for 30 years we didnot manage to put to court the fascist who did the coup or those "patriots" who killed innocent tcs, and we suddenly discovered the concept of "treason" !!! lets start with our own, and then we think about the rest.

fourth, if we - as the republic of cyprus send to prison sener levent, kafetjioglou, ari erel , mustafa akici - that is, people who have been the whole of their lives against denktash and partition , what would be our difference with denktash...but, i forgot, we dont really mind partition do we? thats one of the cleverest idea i ve ever heard. we are going to put to prison those tcs we agree with!!! if thats not a great strategy which is? i mean does any of you guys follows tc politics? can you difference between the approaches of different tcs, or are they all "the turks" ?

fifth, we are going to be the first country in the history of our planes that it is going to accuse a whole community for "high treason". not denktash or TMT...a whole f***ing community!!! and thats obectivity!!! what more is that than objective rasism!!!!

if we dont want to give them the right to vote under the current situation, we could bring the matter to the ECHR and accept their ruling. these ideas of high treason are the least stupid, not to mention dangerous...

[Kifeas]

I am sure that there must be a law in the 1960 constitution which would suggest that any RoC citizens who live or have lived in the occupied areas, have received a "TRNC" "citizenship", paid taxes to "TRNC" etc, have committed a very serious crime (possibly treason) against their country of citizenship RoC, as they have actively supported the invaders and occupiers of the RoC and the illegal entity set up on land stolen from the RoC. These people have been paying taxes which have been used to buy guns for use against their country of citizenship!!

Accordingly, to obey the 1960 constitution, the RoC should arrest the 78 TCs, organise a fair trial to examine possible crimes committed against the RoC (as above), make them serve any applicable sentence, and allow them to vote and stand for election upon release from jail.

Apparently Tony, the only good law that seems to be missing from this country is one that should require its people to be paying their taxes based on the amount of crap they talk. In such a case I see you to be going bankrupt because you will end up paying more taxes than what you earn.

[sadik]

Those turkish cypriots wanted to be in both Parliaments.In the Legal one and in the So called one claiming the constitution of 1960.
Somebody is underestimating our intelligence.We know well your games.

Look, this is a group of people who are accusing the current Turkish Cypriot leaders for following the policies of Turkey and not pushing for a solution. For many years, pro-solution Turkish Cypriots tried to win the elections in the north and push Turkey towards a solution by using the institutions of the TRNC. However, after several years now, it has been apparent that it's not the Turkish policies that have changed, but those who got elected. Those elected officials who previously were struggling for peace, are now defenting the old policies.

A lot of people started to realize that it will not be possible to achieve a solution if the Turkish Cypriot political representation is based on the TRNC. This is a move designed to move our political representation from the TRNC to the RoC, seperate the will of Turkey and the will of the Turkish Cypriots and make it easier to reach to a solution and, of course, to defend our political rights in the RoC.

If Turkish Cypriots are represented in the RoC, then any negotiations will be done internally between the sides under the roof of the RoC. Turkish Cypriots will be releived from the pressure of Turkey and will be able to make their own decisions. And when we solve our internal problems, we'll call for the withdrawal of Turkey toghether. Solution will be achieved much more easily.

IN order to think that this is a plan designed by Turkey, you really need to be unaware of the situation in Cyprus and have a very paranoid state of mind.

And if the Greek Cypriots in the end are saying that they will neither accept a solution plan, nor the restoration of the constitutional order nor the TCs being represented in the RoC, then I don't know what you want us to do.

[Tony-4497]

GC enclaved etc

Those people have denounced the "TRNC" and are in the occupied areas under a UN-specified status of an enclaved person, as recognised by RoC -legislation - hence they are not committing any crimes.

GC fascists etc

I strongly believe that all those that were involved in the coup should be punished.

"accuse a whole community for "high treason""

I never said the whole community should be put in prison. I said that those who have the nerve to continue to support the "TRNC" while at the same time suing the RoC to demand their full 1960 citizenship rights should also be made to face their full 1960 citizenship obligations.

finally: "we are going to put to prison those tcs we agree with!!"

Apparently, these "friends" of yours that YOU agree with have stated that they are suing the RoC at the ECHR, demanding that they should be able to live in, support and pay taxes to the "TRNC" and at the same time have all of the power sharing rights in the RoC.

Do you and Kifeas understand what this means in practice?? You'd better think about it carefully before you start telling me I'm talking crap.

The 1960 constitution DOES give the TC community the right to share power in the RoC. The ECHR could well uphold that right. It would give them a large part of the parliament, a vice-president and a veto on all matters. The whole country could come to a standstill, being unable to make any decisions, internally, in the EU or elsewhere. Wake up and smell the coffee! This whole attempt by your friends is probably Ankara's latest dirty trick.

Yes, I am exaggerating in what I say.. but this is only to stress that if those 78 want to push the RoC around using LEGAL concepts and the ECHR in order to become sole owners in the north and equal partners in the south and hence paralyse the RoC, they have to be made to face the full LEGAL consequences of ignoring the obligations that RoC citizenship brings with it.

[bakala]

sadik Tony And neversaygoodbye

Like i said guys there is no good at all dwelling in the past unless it has any value to the present or more importantly the future of the island of Cyprus,

if this is to be a forum to discuss ways of solving the problem then by all means suggest solutions.

if this forum is only to discuss ways of punishing people for crimes thier fathers or grandfathers committed then i will take no further part in it

If you wish to just drag up old insults and past recriminations then by all means create a forum for complaints and recriminations, but be aware that it will not bring forth any solutions only newer insults and more heated debate. and further divide an already divided people

bakala

[bakala]

sadik Tony And neversaygoodbye

Like i said guys there is no good at all dwelling in the past unless it has any value to the present or more importantly the future of the island of Cyprus,

if this is to be a forum to discuss ways of solving the problem then by all means suggest solutions.

if this forum is only to discuss ways of punishing people for crimes thier fathers or grandfathers committed then i will take no further part in it

If you wish to just drag up old insults and past recriminations then by all means create a forum for complaints and recriminations, but be aware that it will not bring forth any solutions only newer insults and more heated debate. and further divide an already divided people

bakala

[bakala]

Sadik and Tony
you both definately get an invite poolside with free beer to debate solutions to this old problem, you both seem to have the one quality that will provide a solution
Tolerence for other peoples point of view


Bakala

[bakala]

the following note is a copy of a letter i sent to jack Starw and prime minister Blair prior to the Cyprus debate in the euro assembly a couple of months ago
jack straw is determined to end the isolation of the people of the TRNC as a first step in a long term solution
I ould like to think that my letter to him and mr Blair influenced that decision

the copy of my letter follows

[bakala]

10 Downing Street, London, SW1A 2AA

To
The Prime Minister Tony Charles Lynton Blair
The right Honourable Jack Straw
Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs

Dear Sirs

As Britain takes its place in the seat of presidency of the European community and your high office places you as Britain’s Foreign Minister, to perhaps wield even greater influence upon the European community and its many people, I wonder how the future will Judge Britain’s time in this high office.

At a time when east is meeting west in friendship and the European Union welcomes former soviet block countries, to join and trade within the union, the horrors of European conflict will remain in history books already written, The greatest deterrent to any future European war is the promotion of trade and mutual security within its member nations. The European Union is now the greatest democracy on our planet, where each member state knows that they belong to a new and growing, brotherhood of humanity.

I ask now that Britain looks upon the issue of the people of North Cyprus, who are denied not only recognition but existence as a people, Greece wants what Greece can never have again; Dominium over the Turkish Cypriots, The Turkish Cypriots experienced Greek dominium once before and because of it, looked upon the face of oblivion.

Turkish Cypriots were forced to live in blockaded ghettos, a term not seen to apply to a people or nation since the dark days of world war two, The secret and later open policy that dragged Cyprus towards Enosis with Greece, spelled the future doom of the Turkish Cypriots as a people, That the Turkish Cypriots would not “go quietly into the night and disappear without a fight “ enraged the Greeks and seems to have irritated the European politicians who sat on the sidelines sipping pink gins, the European politicians saw Enosis as a solution to the Cyprus problem. Either they wouldn’t admit or were too blind to see, that it would also be the new “Final solution “for the Turkish Cypriots
They were rescued from extinction by the only country brave enough to take action, Turkey, and Since 1974 Turkey has been vilified as an aggressor. Turkey stands guilty, but only of having the courage that the rest of the world lacked. Turkey refused to stand idly by and watch the Turkish Cypriot civilians be driven out of existence at the muzzle of assault rifles and modern artillery used by a military force that despised them,
The fact that the Turkish Cypriots had been born on Cyprus soil for generations only made them trapped targets for a modern military machine to practice on.

The people of North Cyprus for the last 30 years have stood guilty Too, of only one thing: Surviving eradication, and as punishment for surviving, they have suffered international embargo instigated by the very people who sought to wipe them out , This embargo which must be one of the longest in history and supported by Britain, Shames us all as a nation


I would call your attention to Article 15 sections one and two of the United Nations universal declaration of Human rights signed and ratified By Britain as one of the founder members 57 years ago,

Article 15.
(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
The declaration of Human rights is a truly Noble document, its words penned by men of great wisdom and even greater vision and compassion. It was also a gift to all of Humanity. There are no exceptions for any of the family of humanity within its pages, Article 15 provides the solution to the Cyprus problem and if used would gain a new nobility in the minds of men.
I would plead on behalf of the people of the Turkish republic of North Cyprus for Britain to honour these articles or stand accused by future generations of hypocrisy on an international scale. I ask Britain to lead the way and use its influence to recognise the right of the North Cyprus people to exist in the name of international justice,
The time is now, when the radical and extreme face of Islam preaches hate and destruction, the Turkish nation and the Turkish republic of North Cyprus, wait in the wings to bring the desirable face of Islam in peace and friendship to the European community. These people sit at the geographical crossroads of east and west. They have a choice: To keep waiting at the door of Europe or look east, perhaps for a warmer welcome. God forbid that Europe would loose Turkey and the republic as allies and friends.
The recognition of the people of North Cyprus would be to extend the hand of friendship to a kind, Hospitable, and industrious people whose greatest desire is to live in peace with the rest of the world; This recognition owed too long , would remove the crux of the Cyprus Problem and the last stumbling block for Turkey to join the EEC.
I hope that the days of Turkey and North Cyprus, playing the role of the Cinderella’s of Europe will come to an end in this time of Britain’s presidency, So that the books of history that are yet to be written, will record Britain’s time as premiers of the European community as a time of wisdom, justice , and healing,

[cypezokyli]

ok tony i ll try not to get too hard on you.
its one think to be able "to smell the coffee" and feel that such an incident would be "unfair", but you have to understand that the method you are proposing to solve this thing its way out of reality and is potentially dangerous not to mention it wouldnt have a chance in the EU.

second, it is time for you to start understand that there are very different views from the tcs as well. and as far as i understand from your postings you cannot tell the difference between eroglou - talat - akici. it would help if you bothered a bit to learn the history of these people you accuse as following an ankara plot. give it a try and then we discuss about it again. right now it makes no sense bc youdont have a clue.