Cyprus-Forum.com

[stuballstu]

the idea of an independant cyprus cannot exist as a greek cypriot Cyprus or a Turkish Cypriot Cyprus it can only be a Cypriot Cyprus to be independant,


It can exist as Cypriots - some Greek and others Turkish origin. But still Cypriots also. Of course it can exist this way.

Simon this has been tried before and is the reason why the island is the way it is

Quote:
All the troubles begin with one or the other insisting on it being a greek Cyprus or a Turkish Cyprus


Yes, but this does not mean we have to forget our identity altogether.

Quote:
Once both sides give up their greekness and turkishness then there will be light at the end of the tunnel.


This will never happen and it does not need to happen to find a solution

No one is asking anyone to forget your heritage, however if you are born to parents of GC origin that does not make you Greek. If you think of yourself as Greek before being Cypriot maybe you should consider living in Greece or a Greek island. Cyprus is not a Greek island.


Your heritage may be Greek but your nationality is Cypriot.


I accept this - hence I am a Greek-Cypriot.

If you really do accept this then you will have to accept that you are Cypriot not Greek Cypriot.

[twinkle]

Simon - Are you Greek first then a Cypriot?

Bakala - I agree with you. But the Cypriot Government too has to finally stand up and shout its independence.

This was my whole arguement with the National Pride thread. Stop waving Greek flags and be proud of the Cypriot flag.

If you want to be pedantic I'm a Spanish/Irish/English/Greek/Cypriot !

[Simon]

Whilst i am not saying the displaying of Turkish flags is right i can see why they have this. They are the self proclaimed Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus which no recognises with the exception of Turkey. The ROC has no excuse it is a legal independent state, the complete opposite of the north. As i said i dont agree with the display of Greek or Turkish flags as it hardly inspires "Cypriotness

I'm sorry but there is a clear contradiction here. If Cyprus is going to unite and being Cypriot must come first as you argue, then how can you excuse the TCs calling their state Turkish and displaying Turkish flags. Surely your first aim must be to stop TCs calling any part of Cyprus Turkish. The Greek side does not do it. We have kept our name the RoC which legally represents the whole island. So surely, instead of moaning about a few flags that some Greek-Cypriots have because they are proud of their Greekness, you should be looking at the much more important issue of TCs taking a part of Cyprus for themselves and calling it Turkish. Again, I repeat, there is no longer a need for them to do this. No military junta exists and no EOKA exists. The TCs are no longer being protected from anyone, so why don't the TURKISH troops leave. This should be another one of your concerns. How can we all just focus on being Cypriot and uniting when 40,000 TURKISH troops occupy Cyprus. It seems that you are focusing on the minor points (such as flags) and should consider the major points, such as Turkish colonisation of Cyprus.

[twinkle]

Simon - by the way, the original settlers to Cyprus were in fact from Syria. So you're heritage might be Syrian/GC??!!

[bakala]

Simon
your insistance that "they" remove their identity and you retain yours doesent exactly seem fair.
your insistance that only "your " goverment is the only legal one only seems to stoke the fires that burn for permanent partition and not unity.

The real tragedy is that you believe you are free, your not, and wont be with a greek goverment as big brother

If someday the Turkish Cypriots came back under control of the " legal Goverment as you call it " how long before they had to adopt " your religion "

like i said i respect your opinion and you have the right to say it. but i dont have to agree



True freedom has a hidden price,
for you to have it . everyone must have it. otherwise its just a dream you hold
For if you deny it to others, someday you will wake and realise that the dream has gone with the waking

[stuballstu]

Twinkle

Agree with your post re the ROC government but also need a few brave Cypriots to say the same thing.

Also i bet you English breakfast with Irish Sausages, followed by Paella washed down with Keo goes down well and at least you can smash the plates afterwards

Simon

I'm sorry but there is a clear contradiction here. If Cyprus is going to unite and being Cypriot must come first as you argue, then how can you excuse the TCs calling their state Turkish and displaying Turkish flags. Surely your first aim must be to stop TCs calling any part of Cyprus Turkish. The Greek side does not do it. We have kept our name the RoC which legally represents the whole island. So surely, instead of moaning about a few flags that some Greek-Cypriots have because they are proud of their Greekness, you should be looking at the much more important issue of TCs taking a part of Cyprus for themselves and calling it Turkish. Again, I repeat, there is no longer a need for them to do this. No military junta exists and no EOKA exists. The TCs are no longer being protected from anyone, so why don't the TURKISH troops leave. This should be another one of your concerns. How can we all just focus on being Cypriot and uniting when 40,000 TURKISH troops occupy Cyprus. It seems that you are focusing on the minor points (such as flags) and should consider the major points, such as Turkish colonisation of Cyprus.

Simon there is no contradiction. The TRNC is not recognised as an independent state by anyone that is what i am saying and therefore the reason why i can understand why they have the Turkish flag flying. I also said that i didnt agree with it but can see the reasons why they have it.

The ROC is recognised by the rest of the world as an independent state. Thats the difference its nothing to do with heritage its about independence.
There is also the visual impact, you cant see 40000 troops you can see evidence of them being here. You can see the flags almost everywhere.

The flags are not a minor point, it is very significant. If you see a Greek or a Turkish flag flying on whatever side of the Green Line how are Cypriots supposed to feel Cypriot. The biggest problem Cypriots face is the lack of a feeling of Cypriotness if all Cypriots felt patriotic towards Cyprius then the troops would not be here. But as long as the Turkish Cypriots feel patriotic towards Turkey and the Greek Cypriots feel more patriotic towards Greece then there will always be problems.


Hopefully settlement talks will start this year. Cypriots at this point will have a chance to create their own patriotism which they can pass down to there kids, grandkids in the way that Cypriots today have missed out on.

[twinkle]

Simon I am not disputing what you say. It has gone on for too many years. However, we must get our own house in order and start pushing the identity of an independent Cyprus. The TRNC doesn't exist outside of Turkey. Cyprus does. Stop calling it the Greek side. It only confuses the nationality issue again.

The TC do want the troops out of Cyprus. The Turkish troops daubed those monsterousities on the sides of the mountains of Kyrenia not the TC. The TC class themselves as Cypriots and call themselves that.

Why can't it just be black and white? There are too many variations of grey!

[bakala]

It is natures way of maintianing progress that the dominant will always control the weak and ultimately destroy it
its called natural selection. Its been going on for billions of years
If the greek Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriots were left alone, isolated for a thousand years on the island with no outside influence then it would be found that only one type of Cypriot remained either the greek cypriot or the Turkish Cypriot , the history of the island rewritten and the weaker culture dissapeared, its has always happend and always will. Tomorrows history is written by todays victors,

Wearing the badge of greeknes or Turkishness will always divide the Cypriot people.

Each man born on the island can claim to be Cypriot and i dont care if his parents came from Mars,

The heritage that he is NOT born with, it is learned,
The teachers create the differences he also wasent born with,
The teachers Biased by a past they cannot forget, and crimes they refuse to remember, Influence a new generation and pass on old hatreds and new insults

If you take two brand new Cypriot babies one each from either side of the border and they are brought up as brothers isolated from outside influences they would be true Cypriots and would grow up as brothers,

Now seperate the two brothers Give them each a different flag and tell each brother that the other brother is different and wants to take his flag off him. How long before a new fight breaks out ?


True freedom has a hidden price,
for you to have it . everyone must have it. otherwise its just a dream you hold
For if you deny it to others, someday you will wake and realise that the dream has gone with the waking

[bakala]

Twinkle
Black and white are opposite ends iof the spectrum thats where you both sit now, Niether one prepared to give up his blackness or whiteness
Perhaps you both need to try to be the same shade of grey: IE meet in the middle,


True freedom has a hidden price,
for you to have it . everyone must have it. otherwise its just a dream you hold
For if you deny it to others, someday you will wake and realise that the dream has gone with the waking

[twinkle]

Bakala for president........