Cyprus-Forum.com

[bakala]

Stuballstu

you are bang on mate




True freedom has a hidden price,
for you to have it . everyone must have it. otherwise its just a dream you hold
For if you deny it to others, someday you will wake and realise that the dream has gone with the waking

[Simon]

Simon

Are you Greek? Are you Turkish? or are you Cypriot?

There can only be one of the answers from above?

You are wrong. This is an over-simplistic, narrow-minded way of viewing things. I can be a Greek-Cypriot and this is what I am. Indeed, this is what 78% of the Cypriot population is according to official figures.

But if you insist on being Greek cypriot you should realy leave the politics of the island of Cyprus to those who prefer to be known as Cypriots, the same goes for the Turkish Cypriots

No I shouldn't. Why should I? It was Greek-Cypriots that had been kicked out of their homes, land stolen etc. ALL 200,000 OF THEM! So I will not stay out of it. Why don't you complain to TCs that insist on their state being called Turkish? This is surely a major problem to your theory. How can any TC claim to be merely Cypriot if they live in the 'TRNC?' Surely this is a contradiction. Our state is called the Republic of Cyprus. Tell all TCs to abandon the 'TRNC' and then maybe we can think about being all Cypriot.

[stuballstu]

Quote:
Simon

Are you Greek? Are you Turkish? or are you Cypriot?

There can only be one of the answers from above?


You are wrong. This is an over-simplistic, narrow-minded way of viewing things. I can be a Greek-Cypriot and this is what I am. Indeed, this is what 78% of the Cypriot population is according to official figures.


Simon

These people are called Greek Cypriot. Out of this 78% how many feel Greek and how many feel Cypriot?

[bakala]

Simon
the idea of an independant cyprus cannot exist as a greek cypriot Cyprus or a Turkish Cypriot Cyprus it can only be a Cypriot Cyprus to be independant,
All the troubles begin with one or the other insisting on it being a greek Cyprus or a Turkish Cyprus
Once both sides give up their greekness and turkishness and insist on being Cypriots above all then there will be light at the end of the tunnel.

But you need both Greece and Turky to agree and gaurantee your independance, But im sure this sounds familiar doesent it ?

It was tried once before and the Greek Cypriots decided to annex the whole Island to greece wether the turkish Cypriots wanted it or not,
they denied their neighbors freedom and what happend, they lost their own freedom.




True freedom has a hidden price,
for you to have it . everyone must have it. otherwise its just a dream you hold
For if you deny it to others, someday you will wake and realise that the dream has gone with the waking

[twinkle]

Simon, I agree with you on certain points. The fact is the TRNC doesn't exist in the "real" world only in the minds of Turkish people (not TC).

However, your passport states Cypriot. Not GC. You can only vote in Cypriot elections, not Greek ones. Your heritage may be Greek but your nationality is Cypriot. The sooner people start accepting this and the sooner the politicians make a stand and say we are an independent country and can decide its own policies, then perhaps the US and UK will also stop interfering.

[bakala]

twinkle
you cant vote in greek elections
But your Greek Cypriot Goverment doesent have complete control over its own policies, they are approved and influenced by Greece and if you deny this you are only fooling yourself.
The same goes for the TRNC
its the price you pay for accepting the protection of a big brother and i dont mean that in an orwelliann way.
Total political freedom does not reside on the island for anyone who lives there, both sides live in protectorates and as such must give up the ideal of total political freedom because of the fear of domination from the other side of the border.

The greek Cypriot lives in fear of the evil Turkish Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriots live in fear of the evil Greek Cypriots, this fear is ancouraged by both big brothers to make sure you stay protectorates.



True freedom has a hidden price,
for you to have it . everyone must have it. otherwise its just a dream you hold
For if you deny it to others, someday you will wake and realise that the dream has gone with the waking

[stuballstu]

Good point Bakala

"The greek Cypriot lives in fear of the evil Turkish Cypriots and the Turkish Cypriots live in fear of the evil Greek Cypriots, this fear is ancouraged by both big brothers to make sure you stay protectorates. "


It makes a change and is very interesting to have an open debate on the subject without someone hijacking the thread.

Simon with respect and no offence is intended here so please dont take any with what i am about to write.

Most countries in the world have had settlers, immigrants etc. Take the USA for example. The USA is full of "settlers". For example there are Irish Amercans, Italian Amercians, Greek Americans the list is endless. These people are proud of their heritage however they view themselves as first and foremost American.

I am not going to go over history, Cyprus was given independence in 1960 therfore through generations "cypriots" should have created a seperate identity, whilst still remaining proud of their Greek or Turkish roots.

If any GC or TC thinks of themself as Greek or Turkish before they think of themselves as Cypriot then they should perhaps consider returning to Greece ar Turkey. Cyprus is a legally recognised independent nation on its own right.

The main problem of the Island is that it has never had an individual identity develop. This only happens though generations as back to the American scenario you may have seen the film "Gangs of New York". It took generations for all of these people to feel American whilst still being proud of their roots and having tolerence of others roots.

Also back to my posting on the flags. In the interest of impartiality i dont agree with the public display of Turkish or Greek flags. Whilst i am not saying the displaying of Turkish flags is right i can see why they have this. They are the self proclaimed Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus which no recognises with the exception of Turkey. The ROC has no excuse it is a legal independent state, the complete opposite of the north. As i said i dont agree with the display of Greek or Turkish flags as it hardly inspires "Cypriotness"

[Simon]

Bakala, we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

the idea of an independant cyprus cannot exist as a greek cypriot Cyprus or a Turkish Cypriot Cyprus it can only be a Cypriot Cyprus to be independant,

It can exist as Cypriots - some Greek and others Turkish origin. But still Cypriots also. Of course it can exist this way.

All the troubles begin with one or the other insisting on it being a greek Cyprus or a Turkish Cyprus

Yes, but this does not mean we have to forget our identity altogether.

Once both sides give up their greekness and turkishness then there will be light at the end of the tunnel.

This will never happen and it does not need to happen to find a solution.

But you need both Greece and Turky to agree and gaurantee your independance, But im sure this sounds familiar doesent it ?

This is a contradiction. How can we forget about being Greek and Turkish and just being Cypriots if we need Greece and Cyprus to guarantee our independence.

You seem to think that the problem is in the name. Calling yourself Greek or Turkish. But you are so wrong. For example, I call myself Cypriot and I have nothing to do with being Greek. But then, I talk Greek, I am a Greek-Orthodox, my culture and way of life is Greek in nature. So how can I forget about being Greek? The differences between me and my TC counterpart will still be as prevelent as ever. It will not change just because I am calling myself Cypriot. The differences will still be there. GCs do not need to hide their origin for a solution, neither do TCs. We should be civilised enough and grown-up enough to come to a solution without doing this. Just because one side tried to forceably take over the island before, I seriously cannot see it happening again, can you?

These people are called Greek Cypriot. Out of this 78% how many feel Greek and how many feel Cypriot?

Judging by the flags, I think an awful lot feel Greek mate. But understand there is no contradiction between being Greek and Cypriot as you are making out. There is no Greek or Cypriot, BUT IT IS GREEK AND CYPRIOT. Or Turkish and Cypriot. It should be the Cypriot part that unites us, this I agree with. But we don't have to give up the other part to do this.

Your heritage may be Greek but your nationality is Cypriot.

I accept this - hence I am a Greek-Cypriot.

[bakala]

Stuballstu

bang on again mate
Every American Pledges allegiance to America and the American flag if he wants to become an American Citizen.
He pledges to fight for the America he is now a Citizen of, even if its against his former country.
In Britain now they are considering having a similar system for political refugees

Because some refugees enter Britain and become potential terrorists almost from day one,

[bakala]

Simon
its ok to disagree mate and i respect your right to do so. and im prepared to stand shoulder to shoulder with you and fight for your right to disagree with me, its called freedom mate
like i keep saying you cant have freedom yourself unless you gift it to everyone elses thats the price. but while we debate and allow the other guy the right to disagree we are not fighting, thats the way forward.


True freedom has a hidden price,
for you to have it . everyone must have it. otherwise its just a dream you hold
For if you deny it to others, someday you will wake and realise that the dream has gone with the waking