Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Rolo, the Akritas plan was wrong.
Imposing a constitution on Cypriots was also wrong.

What would be right is letting Cypriots make their own constitution. Personally I understand why TCs didn't want union with Greece, so I am glad that GCs made that compromise. But not even allowing Cypriots to decide about our constitution (within the limits of human rights and what it exists in other democratic countries of course) was wrong.

Some people say "Why did you sign it then?". The answer is that we were not given an option. Even today that the international law is crystal clear and Turkey grossly violates the laws, human rights and ignores EU resolutions and ECHR rulings, and still the AngloAmericans don't want to give us any other option apart from what they decided for our own country. The insist on deciding for us instead of us, and if we don't obey then they threaten that they will even legalize the human rights violations against us! All these happen today, 2006, when Cyprus is an EU member. Imagine the pressure we had on accepting what they demanded in 1960!

Greek Cypriots had been slaves of various rulers during most part of history, and those rulers have never allowed Cypriots to decide about their own country in a democratic way.

If democratic choices were forbidden it is obvious that people will try to find other ways to react which most often will be wrong (e.g Akritas plan) but when the right thing (democratic choice) is not available there is not many other "right" alternatives, are there?

[BirKibrisli]

Greek Cypriots had been slaves of various rulers during most part of history, and those rulers have never allowed Cypriots to decide about their own country in a democratic way.

You know,Piratis,I always wondered why the GCs wanted Enosis in the 50s rather than independence.I thought nationalism could'nt be the only reason.You might have hitted it on the head here.A community who were always at the mercy of other far stronger nations/empires,who had no say in their own future,would probably want to go back to the protection of "Mamma",to be part of a bigger,stronger nation.This can also explain why the TCs wanted Taksim.And it probably also explains why most of us are having much difficulty in lettting go of the yearning for "Mamma's" protection...

[rolo]

Piratis and Birkibrisli

for what its worth id just like to say thanks for two well constructed posts, without any mudslinging. Both posts help the other side understand the other's position.

[BirKibrisli]

Thanks for your post,Rolo...much appreciated.
We sometimes forget that all we have to do to understand the other side is to put ourselves in their shoes.Show some empathy.
I don't know why most people find this sooooo difficult.
But we have no other choice if we want to help our beloved Cyprus.

[faruk]

Dear Simon,
If there is a natioan which is more laughable than Turks are Greeks. Also we all know whose behaviours was similar to the snakes’. It has been uncovered who the snakes were with the famous Akritas plan that aimed at dissolving the RoC and succeeded as well.
If your thoughts were the references for these sort of issues then all the normal thougts would be abnormal because yours are not normal.
When we consider on the issue of minorities you seem little bit confused on the idea between to be minority as politically and to be part of a country as being different ethnic entity. And what I understand about your point of view is that the racism. You can not see them as part of their country but you still count them as minorities (Afro-Americans or etc.) About Turkish Cypriots, I can say that TC’s were part of Republic of Cyprus, not minority, not part of Turkey, especially not part of Greece. TCs had their own another country named RoC founded together with GCs. But you tried to unite island with Greece by ignoring, indeed, by destroying TCs. Then RoC were obliterated because of GCs. Now there are two community, two Country on Cyprus. One is Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and other is Greek Administration of South Cyprus. It will be the situation of the island forever.
I do not know if you are from south Cyprus or from Greece but if you are form South then you can realize enosis by uniting South side to Greece. But it was unacceptable thing to unite the whole island to Greece in the name of liberation because it did not only belong to GCs it was also the island of TCs. Then I can claim to unite the island to Turkiye. Would it be bad for you?
Besides you are wrong in the issue that Kurds have not much place in the executive. İf you dont know I can inform you that the consultants of the prime-minister are Kurds. I can say easily that every citizen of Turkiye have the same rights and the composition of staff to the offices made without looking his/her origin. And who blows up some places are PKK/ Kongra-Gel terrrorist organization not the Kurds. And it seems that you think this terrorist incidents reasonable in some sort. It is what can be expected from you.

[Simon]

If there is a natioan which is more laughable than Turks are Greeks. Also we all know whose behaviours was similar to the snakes’. It has been uncovered who the snakes were with the famous Akritas plan that aimed at dissolving the RoC and succeeded as well.

I think that is rich considering the sneaky way in which Turkey conspired with Britain and then the US to carve up Cyprus right from the beginning for their own interests. And you call Greeks sneeky! How about the Treaty of Lausanne which was supposed to prevent either Greece or Turkey claiming each others territory. Greece has always upheld this, yet Turkey just can't seem to stop their colonial routes, the latest being their constant claims in the Aegean and their claim on Imia, which clearly belongs to Greeks if you look at the political history when the Italians gave back the region. I could go on here, but I think the points been made. By the way, please get your facts straight; the RoC has not been dissolved.

When we consider on the issue of minorities you seem little bit confused on the idea between to be minority as politically and to be part of a country as being different ethnic entity.

I understand it perfectly. I think it is you who does not understand. My point is Cyprus is one. Forget ethnic divides for one moment. If Cyprus as one, wanted to join Greece, which it did, with 82% in favour, it should have been granted. This is a country choosing its own destiny. This is democracy. If you do not like it, go back to Turkey, where the military rule!

You can not see them as part of their country but you still count them as minorities (Afro-Americans or etc.) About Turkish Cypriots, I can say that TC’s were part of Republic of Cyprus, not minority, not part of Turkey, especially not part of Greece. TCs had their own another country named RoC founded together with GCs. But you tried to unite island with Greece by ignoring, indeed, by destroying TCs. Then RoC were obliterated because of GCs. Now there are two community, two Country on Cyprus. One is Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and other is Greek Administration of South Cyprus. It will be the situation of the island forever

Of course I see them as part of the country. Again you seem very confused. You say TC is not a minority. I'm afraid you will find they are. No matter how hard it is for this to digest into your tiny brain, there are less TCs then GCs, which means you are a minority. This does not mean you are not part of a country, or do not have equal rights as individuals, just that as a community, you are a minority. Simple as that. I say enosis should have happened because the countries population overwhemingly wanted it overrall. I understand we compromised, I can accept that, but if you continue to demand the maximum, partition of 37% for a 18% population, then I will call for the maximum. If I do not have the right to demand Cyprus to be Greek, then you do not have the right to make part of it Turkish, kick 200,000 people out of their homes etc. However, if you do, then I can call for Cyprus to join Greece, after all, the population is overwhemingly Greek. I am sick of the double standards of Turkish people. You make several untrue statements. Firstly, we did not destroy TCs. This is defamatory and melodramatic. Second, the RoC is not obliterated, but indeed still exists. Thirdly, there are not two countries on Cyprus, but one country which is occupied by a foreign army. Fourthly, a Greek Administration of South Cyprus does not exist. It is the RoC. And fifthly, nothing lasts forever.

I do not know if you are from south Cyprus or from Greece but if you are form South then you can realize enosis by uniting South side to Greece. But it was unacceptable thing to unite the whole island to Greece in the name of liberation because it did not only belong to GCs it was also the island of TCs. Then I can claim to unite the island to Turkiye. Would it be bad for you?

How about you give Northern Cyprus back to its people and stop the illegalities, and I will drop talks of enosis as my compromise. Alternatively, have your own state, but only 18-20%, as this is proportionate to what you should have. Then the Tcs can do what they like, and the same applies to the Greek side.

Finally, I do not believe terrorist incidents are reasonable. This is again defamatory and I would urge you to choose your words more carefully. What I do believe is that under the most extreme circumstances, they may be understandable, but certainly not reasonable. Some Kurdish people may have some high offices, but I think if you asked the average Kurd on the street, he would tell you a few things you would not like. The Kurds would love independence or some degree of proper autonomy, but they will never get it will they? This is clear after Turkey made it clear to the US of their concerns that if the Kurds get independence in Iraq, they may try to get it in Turkey too. The US had to quickly give the Turks assurances this would not be allowed to happen. You would not even acknowledge the Kurds' language until recently, and their human rights have clearly been violated many times, so the picture you try to paint is clearly incorrect. Those PM advisors are probably a few puppets just to allow the Turkish government to keep on top of the situation. By the way, I think you'll find that the Kurds or organisations representing the Kurds have committed various terrorist acts in Turkey, including the most recent ones in Istanbul, according to UK news at least.