Cyprus-Forum.com

[-mikkie2-]

MicAtCyp,

I agree that the TC's who have been given property in the north have to bear responsibility for that fact. To reclaim your property whilst living someone elses property that does not belong to you is obvioulsy wrong. And I think in this instance, it would be very difficult for a TC in that situation to get their property back in the south.

However, if a TC relinquishes property given to them in the north and decides to come south, and stays for six months, and shows that they intend to stay in the south then I do not see a problem with that. Perhaps restrictions could be placed on such property, so that the person cannot sell the property on until the problem in Cyprus is solved or they can show they will be residing in the south. It is very tricky but I think safeguards can be put in place to prevent misuse.

For TC's living abroad, especially in the EU, I do think that they would have a very good case. If the TC in question cannot get recourse in Cyprus then there is nothing stopping them from going to the ECHR. I think many TC's are discouraged from doing such things by the regime in the north, the simple reason being that the whole basis of the pseudostate hinges on the property issue. Undermine this issue and the pseudostate collapses.

So I can conclude that if someone is determined enough, they can make a case and have a fairly good chance of winning.

In the case of Arif, if a compromise is not agreed, or if the Supreme Court accepts the objections of the Atterney General, then he will more than likely take his case to the ECHR and most probably win. The government would be foolish to let that happen! If we are a state of law then we have to live by the law as well.

[brother]

you fight the war of words that you should have the right in your own country to live where you want so how can you say come and live in the south when people have made the north there home for 30 years.

so i ask why not return to the north live there for at least 6 months then we give you youre property back but you can not sell it or move back to the south, WOULD YOU AGREE TO SUCH OUTRAGEOUS DEMANDS.

I bet you would say 'OXI' to that as well, so in a nutshell stop insulting our intelligence and bring a formula that you could live by then we will have grounds to talk on but do not sell me the ROC is law abiding as at the moment it chooses which laws to abide by but when it comes to the tc it is chewing up there human rights and spitting it out.

PRACTICE THE LAW FULLY BEFORE YOU SELL IT TO OTHERS.

[-mikkie2-]

Brother,

I am being outrageous?

Listen, Turkey will not allow GC's to live in the north. We have to have visas to even go north! Now, isn't that outrageous?

Now, can you honestly tell me a GC can go and live in the north right now? Come on. Lets get real here.

I am suggesting to you that you have means at your disposal to stand up for your rights in Cyprus. That is much more than what the GC refugees can do, yet you choose to brush away my comments.

Is what I am saying sooo bad? What are you afraid of? What are you trying to prove to me? Instead of whinging and complaining DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! You have options which you choose to not take. Don't blame me for your inability to take things forward.

[brother]

You're choice of words do you no justice this is not whinging but plain facts, i know and accept that you're rights are chewed by turkey and it annoys me no end but i am trying to tell you that the ROC is doing exactley the same thing but a different formula thats all.

Many people will not agree to the suggestions you say and the ROC knows that and keeps it like that.

Now lets stop playing the dutiful ROC citizen bit and be blind and stupid to whats going on then you will see the light like i can.

What i am saying is that turkey does not let it happen for you and the ROC in return makes it impossible for us , in effect it is a wolf dressed in sheepd clothing so in my mind:

Turkey does wrong=ROC does wrong= two wrongs do not make a right.

[-mikkie2-]

Brother,

I accept what you say.

BUT, the RoC claims to be a state of law. It is now in the EU. EU laws prevail and all EU citizens have the right to be treated equally.

You as an individual can challenge the RoC using legal means. GC's do not have that luxury in the north as you rightly suggest. The RoC government knows this, but quite frankly it does not have much option, just in the same way Turkey will not have an option but to respect EU laws if it wishes to progress into the EU.

So, where is the problem in you trying to pursue your case? You do have the opportunity to do so. I suggest you take advatage of that opportunity.

In any event, it does seem to me that the only way out for all parties without loosing face will be to use the RoC as the basis of any solution! The harder Turkey tries to undermine the RoC the harder things will be for her, because the legal basis for Turkey to win is simply not there. And the longer the TC's try to deny the existance of the RoC the longer it will take for the problem to be solved.

We are inexorably being led to the obvious way to a solution - via the RoC!

[brother]

no tc denies the existence of the ROC, but they are still to see it action anything positive, if like you say a legal entity what turkey does is of no relevance as yet and when it becomes a e.u member than i believe you will get justice but at that point the ROC will then make it happen for us, watch and see.

but for now it is a pipe dream, trust me i have no reason to mislead you only trying to explain the way it is but by all means enquire and you will see going to any court at this moment will be in vain.

[-mikkie2-]

Brother,

These things might happen much sooner than you think!

In the mean time, people can start to make a difference by taking action as individuals. It is obvious that collectively we cannot do very much. However, as individuals we can do much more.

The fact that Arif has managed to take the RoC to court should be encouraging to many TC's. If he can do it, so can others.

I still insist that what I am hearing are excuses for inaction. People need to be pro-active!

[brother]

arifs case is still to be finalised lets see what happens there and then accordingly i am sure many people will take action.

[insan]

Brother,

These things might happen much sooner than you think!

In the mean time, people can start to make a difference by taking action as individuals. It is obvious that collectively we cannot do very much. However, as individuals we can do much more.

The fact that Arif has managed to take the RoC to court should be encouraging to many TC's. If he can do it, so can others.

I still insist that what I am hearing are excuses for inaction. People need to be pro-active!

In my opinion there are just a small number of TCs who have been living in North and occupying some GC properties wish to abandon the properties they occupy, get back their properties in South and live there. Most of them prefer to exchange the properties they occupy with the ones they left in South.


Things might be different for the TCs who have been living abroad and got no GC properties in North in return what they left in South. I heard that some of them sued RoC got their properties back and sold them. Some of them got properties in North in return of what they left in South and either have sold them or using them for seasonal purposes.

Thus, every TC is free to act how they wish regarding this issue. As I said most of them would like to exchange the properties they have been occupying for more than 30 years.. so instead of waiting a comprehensive settlement to Cyprus problem; TCs and even GCs can file a case for exchanging their properties. If the legal owners of the properties they occupy agree with the ones who wish to exchange the properties they left in South/North, at least a big part of the properties problem would have been solved by this way.


Who will encourage them to apply Cyprus or international courts in order to exchange their properties legally? Don't expect the politicians but civil initiatives and NGOs can do this.


Actually this voluntarily exchange of properties should have been offered to the people who left their properties in either side of the Island, in 1977 when they agreed on bi-zonality...

"Trust to the politicians lies and wait for a lifetime just for nothing."

[brother]

especially the tassos lies.