Cyprus-Forum.com

[kalamaras74]

Thank you malaka.

Interesting. I don't think the guy is Greek as he did not form the correct plural 'Malakes' when he insulted us.

[bg_turk]

Regarding WWI, violent expansion and genocide. Please see:

Not Even My Name : From a Death March in Turkey to a New Home in America, a Young Girl's True Story of Genocide and Survival (Hardcover)

Maewing, can you please clarify what is your agenda. Ok as the admin said this topic is about Greek and Turkish involvement in the Cyprus problem, so lets try to stick to the topic.Unless of course you seek to provoke us by raising these out of topic questions such as the plight of the Uyghur Turks in China or the issue of Genocide during WW1. If you want to learn more about the Turkish side of the story refer to:

The Ottoman Peoples and the End of Empire
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/034070 ... oding=UTF8

Death and Exile: The Ethnic Cleansing of Ottoman Muslims, 1821-1922
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087850 ... oding=UTF8

We have no problem with acknowledging ths suffering caused to Armenians during this time period, what Turkish people will not accept is for some to hijack history and portray them as the sole agressors, whereas Armenians were only victims of agression. We will simply not allow you or anybody else to distort the history of the period, and buyr the millions of Turks who have lost their lives as if their muslims lives are intrinsically less valuable than those of the christians.

Regarding the so called annexing of Cyprus "willingly" (you were forced after losing the war) you may see Gilbert above and read your own reference again: "Ataturk" by Lord Kinross.

If you are interested in the history of the Cyprus conflict you can once again as a few people pointed out refer to
www.cyprus-conflict.net

Regarding the Turkic tribes, I concede your point, if the evidence (as you suggest) is that the placement of the tribes within China was historic--a point which I never raised but only asked if you knew more of it. I WAS WRONG TO SAY THAT IT WAS AGGRESSIVE. However, that fact that they were not Ottoman (that is, part of the empire) remains, which makes the point of them being persecuted by the Chinese--in our discussion--irrelevant. Here we are discussing Ottoman movements in Asia-Minor and the eventual spread to Cyprus.

It is very noble of you to acknowledge that. Thank you.

Can the Cyprus problem be resolved without Turkey and Greece being involved? That is, what is necessary for GCs and TCs to agree upon and what steps must be taken in order to end the conflict and have a unified Cyprus?

The Cyprus problem is a problem between Turkish and Greek Cypriots. If you remove Turkey from the equation the negotiating power of Turkish Cypriots will be significanlty eroded, since they will be nothing but a weak minority, and it will be very easy for Greek Cypriots to impose their terms and conditions on them.

In any case it was Greece and Turkey that caused the Cyprus Problem in the first place, without them I do not believe that it can be realisitically resolved.

[maewing]

2fan quote: "It would be easy to stick to a topic that made sense. How do you propose to solve the Cyprioy problem by taking out the Greeks and the Turks? Do you not agree that both entities are major players as far as the problem is concerned? Let's stick to realistic solutions"

So TCs and GCs cannot solve their own problems? "Realistic" solutions must involve other countries? Now YOU sound quite American (or French).

Perhaps you're thinking they need the military enforcement power of one side or the other...??

[maewing]

Actually bg_Turk I've been on the defensive from the beginning. You're countrymen are the ones that brought up the Turkic tribes. Joining us late, you might want to check the earlier postings. Right now we're trying to get back on topic.

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

Mae, you bought them up, we explained of Turkish Civilisation in Eastern Turkestan currently a part of China

LALA--"In the real world, this forum means nothing, Greek Cypriot polliticians are ANTI-TURK, Turkish Cypriot polliticians either through incredible genius or stupidity from which they got pure and utter luck have managed to flip the situation into the Greek Cypriot corner putting the pressure on them for the First time"

Mae
Why continue contributing? You are obviously looking for some sympathy or something. Whatever it is, it is not addressing the issue.

Show me, pro-Turk Greek Polliticians who wish to make any sort of deal

Get real, this is the real world, not a Pollitically Correct fantasy world.

Gc's screwed up, now the pressure is on them, this is just a place who re-concilliation where some can try to lick their wounds

The Greek NO vote, was fantastic for Turkish Cypriots, it showed us what Greeks really think, got us recognition and understanding and now we know never to Vote Yes again

Its this simple, we are Turks, speak Turkish, are Muslim, have Turkish history/culture etc etc

You people are really funny, you wanna unite with a people you cant TOLERATE, I'm a reasonable Turk if you can't handle me you dont have a chance with the others lol

Look at how frustrated and angry you get when a Turk speaks there mind, its clear you just want Turks who shut-up accept every Greek demand and who worship the feet of Greeks hehe, as if.

Greeks are Greek speak Greek etc etc

ie, CYPRIOT people do not exist, we are either Turks from the geographical location of Cyprus or Greeks on the Geographical location of Cyprus.

Unless you can invent a Cypriot language, make us all one religion and the same people this will never change, so stop living in a make believe world.

Have fun in Fantasy world, when you wish to be a realist let me know.

[2fan]

2fan quote: "It would be easy to stick to a topic that made sense. How do you propose to solve the Cyprioy problem by taking out the Greeks and the Turks? Do you not agree that both entities are major players as far as the problem is concerned? Let's stick to realistic solutions"

So TCs and GCs cannot solve their own problems? "Realistic" solutions must involve other countries? Now YOU sound quite American (or French).

Perhaps you're thinking they need the military enforcement power of one side or the other...??

I'm Turkish American.

You have hit the nail on the head Maewing. GCs and TCs are not able to work out their differences in solitary. As BG has pointed out, if Turkey were to pull out, the TCs negotiating strength would be quite diminished. Even though the RoC claims that Greece has no influence on them anylonger I would differ. Greece still wields power in the south. In essence, Turkey and Greece had a hand in the creation of the problem so pragmatically they should be there for the solution, and they will be there.

Moreover, Turkey is a guarantor power in the Cyprob (regardless if she used or abused the right). This is a right she will not cede so easily.

Thirdly, the vast majority of Cypriot Turks do not trust GCs because of the past. They enjoy having the Turkish military presence on the island because it makes them feel safe. I have always said, lets put the military issue to a refferendum in the North. The majority would vote for them to remain.

I too would like to see the Island reunited where the people trust each other and live together in harmony. Unfortunately now is not the time. There are still to many wounds that have not healed. It is better for them to live in two seperate countries, with relaxed borders and common infrastructure projects. Then, perhaps later, they will evolve into one nation gain after some of the problems have been successfully solved. To solve these problems the EU, UK, US and Turkey will all have to work together.

[blackley]

Maewing
The Cyprus problen can only be solved by agreement of Turkey and Greece. Once Makarios and Greece begain the terrorist campaign to unite Cyprus with Greece, Turkey became involved. It could not allow Greek expansion to a fairly large base just 40 miles from is southern shores. All the rest is irrelevant.

[Agios Amvrosios]

I'm Turkish American.

Two things: 1) who gives a shit?
2) would you support a constitution similar to the American Constitution for Cyprus, that is to say where every individual has the same rights as everyone else- or would you still insist on Special Privileges for the Turkish Minority for no other reason other than being glorious Turks with a brutal occupation behind them to do allow them to ask for any idiotic undemocratic privilege they can get away with?

[rolo]

Under an unworkable constitution any "idiotic undemocratic privilege" seems to be the desired state of affairs...................

[Piratis]

Turkey was involved all along. Since the time they lost Cyprus to the British they were claiming that Cyprus should have been returned to them and later on they demanded partition. At no point Turkey accepted a united independent Cyprus and they were looking for an excuse to invade.

blackly, according to the resolution 1541 of the UN about decolonization (http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION ... penElement ) free association with an independent State, integration into an independent State, or independence are the three legitimate options.

Why the Cypriots were not allowed to express in a democratic way their choice?

If Cyprus could belong to the Turks for 300 years against the will of the majority of Cypriots, what exactly is so wrong with Cyprus (which has 82% Greek speaking population) being part of Greece if this was the democratically chosen option?

Still, Greek Cypriots have accepted to make a compromise on this and after 1960 enosis was only in the dream of some people and in words by a minority and never an official policy. It is a fact that the paramilitary organization of EOKA B went against the official policy and committed crimes against TCs and GCs, but this was also the case with the Turkish terrorist organization TMT who did similar crimes with the aim of partition. So don't be one sided on this issue.

Today, while Greek Cypriots left "enosis" behind, Turkish Cypriots still insist on partition, something which has never been their right since the TC community has not even been the majority of any part of Cyprus, and apart from villages spread around Cyprus no part can be considered as their own separately from Greek Cypriots.

It is time for you to leave the excuses behind. In the way we do not ask for your punishment for the 100 times more crimes you committed against us, you should do the same and forgive us for the crimes we committed against you. Finding excuses to continue the illegalities and the human rights violations will never lead us to peace.