Cyprus-Forum.com

[maewing]

Blackley, LALA, 2Fan


It's a pity. Even when asked repeatedly to use references, you guys are unable to do so. It really makes the discussion pointless. You spout out numbers and dates, discredit everyone else's assertions and shout nothing but Turkish pride.

LALA, claiming that Turkey is avictim in almost any regard is ridiculous, especially with respect to Cyprus. You know this but you don't want to admit it. As another commenter indicated, GCs are not entirely innocent but their hands are not nearly as bloody. You're just deluded if you think otherwise and it's a shame.

Blackley, you somehow think writing a novel has given you a license to rewrite history. If you did 2 years of research why not enlighten us with these "public records" you keep pointing to? Assume we are ignorant and beneath you and endulge us. Your last posting merely said "do the research yourself". Whenever someone says that, I know there's lie coming and your postings stink of them. Unless you can get some references, have some integrity and pull out until you do.

2Fan, I was hoping you would say something insightful, but you have yet to do so. You can call GCs names, you can assert that I need to use better sources (try READING the postings before you respond my friend: I never used Wikopedia and discredited it myself as a source), but why not come up with something original and of substance. Once again, your failure to read closely made you assume my "Ottoman encroachment" meant the Ottomans were expanding the empire during WW1. That just owes to an enability to read and understand English--noun versus verb.

Regarding the Turkic tribes (which you brought up) I asked YOU how they got to China--you obviously don't know. They are not native to China. (Geoffrey Blainey has written a few books on this, including "A Short History of the World", so try looking that up: that's a reference.) You and the rest of your mates appear to feel that wherever the Turks ended up, they belonged--whether Cyprus, Greece, Hungary, China, etc.--that it had nothing to do with their violent expansions. As another commentor alluded, you guys look at the short period of a few hundre years that Turkey has not been living in caves and consider that to give you the right to claim areas where others lived for thousands of years.

One final note for you all. Another good reference for Cyprus is "Rubicon" by Tom Holland. There Cyprus and Asia-Minor is discussed in detail along with Greek and Roman history but with no reference to Turkey. Why? Because it did not exist. Try reading before writing.

Until you guys start using references I have nothing more to say. It's been great!

[Piratis]

LALA, claiming that Turkey is avictim in almost any regard is ridiculous, especially with respect to Cyprus. You know this but you don't want to admit it. As another commenter indicated, GCs are not entirely innocent but their hands are not nearly as bloody. You're just deluded if you think otherwise and it's a shame.

Exacly maewing.

Greek Cypriots have never claimed that their site had not committed crimes and mistakes. It is a fact that our leadership didn't handle well the constitution, that the British forced on us, in the early years of the Republic and that some paramilitary organization had committed crimes against Turkish Cypriots. However even at this same period the Turkish Cypriots paramilitaries were also committing crimes against Greek Cypriots. Both sides had about an equal number of victims.

Now the Turks remember only the period of that conflict of 10-15 years, as if those 15 years were the whole history, forgetting everything that happened before those years (the root of the problem) and excusing everything that happened after those years. Even during those years they again conveniently forget their own crimes against us.

So basically they remove the whole history and their 100 times worst crimes against us, and they remember only what suits them.

Why they do that? Because they want an excuse to continue their crimes against us like they have done in the most part of history.

On the other hand, the GCs who had suffered from Turks much more, not only they do not seek revenge, not only they do not demand even a single human, legal or democratic right sacrifice from the TCs (like they demand for us), they have made further compromises hoping that a solution can be found.

Unfortunately the Turkish side as the "winners" of the war believe that they should be rewarded for their "victory" by gaining on the loss of Greek Cypriots human and democratic rights.

Then the TCs complain that GCs are not willing to negotiate the terms of their surrender and to sign the legalization of the violations of their human rights!! Of course we are not! No self respecting human would.

[bg_turk]

what about my controversial comments regarding Art GCSE programs in Turkey?

Apparently not only Turkey needs extra lessons, Greece needs some too. Look at this poster from the Second Balkan War called BulgarEater:

[bg_turk]

Until you guys start using references I have nothing more to say.

Concerning the Cyprus problem and the chronology of events here is a good reference:

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net

and here are some narratives by Turkish eye witnesses:

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/birgin%2 ... atives.htm

[bg_turk]

Regarding the Turkic tribes (which you brought up) I asked YOU how they got to China--you obviously don't know. They are not native to China. (Geoffrey Blainey has written a few books on this, including "A Short History of the World", so try looking that up: that's a reference.) You and the rest of your mates appear to feel that wherever the Turks ended up, they belonged--whether Cyprus, Greece, Hungary, China, etc.--that it had nothing to do with their violent expansions. As another commentor alluded, you guys look at the short period of a few hundre years that Turkey has not been living in caves and consider that to give you the right to claim areas where others lived for thousands of years.

What is your point exactly? Are you trying to make us turks appear as extraterrestrials who fell from space and invaded everybodys land.

The wider Mongolian region is our homeland, and just like many other European peoples we moved to Europe to establish our own state.
Concerning Eastern Turkestan and the Turks of China yours was one of the most ridiculous statement I have heard. The Uyghur people are definitely native to Eastern Turkestan, and it is their native land.

You want references about them. Here you go:

‘Criminalizing Ethnicity: Political Repression in Xinjiang
http://www.hrichina.org/fs/view/downloa ... 1.2004.pdf

Internal Colonialism and the Uyghur Nationality: Chinese Nationalism and its Subaltern Subjects
http://cemoti.revues.org/document48.html
Here is a statement by an Uyghur about his history:

"The Uyghur people are the direct descendants of a high civilization of Central Asian nomadic people who had a kingdom based here in Turfan. The elegant paintings and wrapping in this tomb date to the Han Dynasty (206 B.C.-220 A.D.) and are comparable in beauty and sophistication. A mummy in the Xinjiang Provincial tombs also found in this area dates over 6 000 years old and proves the Uyghur people are even older than the Han Chinese"

[2fan]

Dear LALA, I am surprised but you really don't seem to understand what most of us here are saying and you're also waffling.

Mea,

If anyone is waffling it is you.

They expanded violently during WWI because they thought it was an opportunity and supported Germany (another expanding, violent group) because they again, thought it would lead to opportunity.

Could you please provide your sources for this assertion?

Regarding your claim that "Turkey owned the island before the Brits" this is narrowly true. Yes, for about 300 years the Turks were there, but then as they started to lose in WWI they retreated and annexed it to the Brits.

The Ottomans leased the island to the Brits in return for their assistance against the war with Imperial Russia. This later turned into a British landgrab after Britain reneged on their promise to deliver 2 badly needed battleships for the Ottoman Navy. Germany decided to deliver the needed vessels and the Ottomans decided to enter WW1 on the German side. It was then that the Brits annexed Cyprus, not because they were losing the war.

Source: " Ataturk: Biography of the Founder of Turkey"
Author: Andrew Mango

Before this, however, there is no history at all of Turks in Cyprus. It was a Greek-speaking kingdom for more than 2000 years.

It's called spoils of war.

Moreover, do you not think it strange, when you go to Northern Cyprus, that all of the churches and places there (all of which predate the Ottoman occupation by at least 1500 years) are completely desecrated. Muslims claim that the eyes of icons "look into the soul"--so they destroy them and all who venerate them.

Your last sentence is a hatchet job on Muslims. While many churches were destroyed in the north many mosques were destroyed in the south. Not "complete" destruction as you claim. Please start getting at least some things correct.

This is evil at its heart LALA and you should recognize it before it destroys your heart.

No, what your trying to convince people here, is that ,Turks are evil at heart. No new propaganda.

[2fan]

It's a pity. Even when asked repeatedly to use references, you guys are unable to do so. It really makes the discussion pointless. You spout out numbers and dates, discredit everyone else's assertions and shout nothing but Turkish pride.

So you would like us to put a source at the end of each sentence? You make many assertions that you do not have a clue about and certainly do not quote sources except for a couple books. You discredit anyone that disagrees with you when you obviosly don't know jack shit about what you're talking about. There is nothing wrong with ignorance except when you think you know what your talking about. I think your motto is:
If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit.

LALA, claiming that Turkey is avictim in almost any regard is ridiculous, especially with respect to Cyprus. You know this but you don't want to admit it. As another commenter indicated, GCs are not entirely innocent but their hands are not nearly as bloody. You're just deluded if you think otherwise and it's a shame.

Again, you claim something without any substantiation. Please get off your high horse.

Blackley, you somehow think writing a novel has given you a license to rewrite history. If you did 2 years of research why not enlighten us with these "public records" you keep pointing to? Assume we are ignorant and beneath you and endulge us.

Perhaps he feels that you are ignorant beyond redemption and he simply doesn't want to bother with you. Get up off your ass and find your own research that reaches beyond what you learned in High School.

have some integrity and pull out until you do.

Who died and made you a moderator? What integrity are you talking about? You certainly don't have any.

2Fan, I was hoping you would say something insightful, but you have yet to do so. You can call GCs names,

What names have I called the GCs? What do you know about me. My views, my beliefs? Your arrogance is reprihensible.

you can assert that I need to use better sources (try READING the postings before you respond my friend: I never used Wikopedia and discredited it myself as a source), but why not come up with something original and of substance. Once again, your failure to read closely made you assume my "Ottoman encroachment" meant the Ottomans were expanding the empire during WW1. That just owes to an enability to read and understand English--noun versus verb.

Now you lie ontop of everything else. I read your post again and quoted it in my previous post where you clearly state that the Ottomans were expanding violently during WW1. You would be a great politician. You and DUBYA go bowling on turesday nights?

Regarding the Turkic tribes (which you brought up) I asked YOU how they got to China--you obviously don't know. They are not native to China. (Geoffrey Blainey has written a few books on this, including "A Short History of the World", so try looking that up: that's a reference.)

A short history of the world? Please don't make me laugh. You base your assumptions on general books such as these?

You and the rest of your mates appear to feel that wherever the Turks ended up, they belonged--whether Cyprus, Greece, Hungary, China, etc.--that it had nothing to do with their violent expansions.

You keep talking about "violent expansion" is there such a thing as peaceful expansion? You totally miss the boat on history, civilisations and territorial borders. After the Turks entered Anatolia in the 10th century, do you believe that they were the only race that was empire building? The french and the brits were "violently" expanding against each other. The Vikings were expanding. Do you see the pattern?

As another commentor alluded, you guys look at the short period of a few hundre years that Turkey has not been living in caves and consider that to give you the right to claim areas where others lived for thousands of years.

For your information Turks never lived in caves. This truly shows your ignorance about history.

One final note for you all. Another good reference for Cyprus is "Rubicon" by Tom Holland. There Cyprus and Asia-Minor is discussed in detail along with Greek and Roman history but with no reference to Turkey. Why? Because it did not exist. Try reading before writing.

Now you're denying the existence of Turkey. You are a complete moron.

Until you guys start using references I have nothing more to say. It's been great!

Don't let the door knob hit you in the ass on your way out.

Before you go check out these books. They should be simple enough for you to understand.

"The Warrior Diplomats: Guardians of the National Security and Modernization of Turkey"
Author: Metin Tamkoc

"The Ottoman Centuries"
Author: Lord Kinross

"Ataturk: Biography of the Founder of Turkey"
Author: Andrew Mango

"Crescent and Star: Turkey Between Two Worlds"
Author: Stephen Kinzer

"Turkey Unveiled"
Author: Hugh Pope

"Sons of the Conquerers: Rise of the Turkic World"
Author: Hugh Pope

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

Exactly 2Fan.

Mae
LALA, claiming that Turkey is avictim in almost any regard is ridiculous, especially with respect to Cyprus

.

Really? well prove it then.

As I have explained, Turks lost over 5 million people in the last Century due to being a Victim and over 6 million refugees fled to modern day TUrkiye.

Us Turkish Cypriots suffered at the hands of EOKA Terrorists and Greek Junta for many years, their aim was to wipe us off the Island which is well documented.

I really dont care wether this bothers you or not, you dont even care about your Native Chiina and the people living their so how could you possibly give a damn about Turks

2Fan has done a good job exposiing you, now I will take it further.


GokTurk Empire

http://www.nationmaster.com/wikimir/ima ... turkut.jpg

Eastern Hun Empire 200 BC - 200 AD

http://sophistikatedkids.com/turkic/btn ... unlar1.jpg

Uygur Empire

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... hurmap.jpg


Han Chinease

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... na_11a.jpg

Theres a big difference between Chinease lands and Turks lands Mae, you should learn your history and discover who are the "enroachers".


Todays Ugyur/Eastern Turkestan province, in China

http://www.uyghuronline.com/img/uyghurmap.jpg

All the names on this map I can read and understand, unless you know Turkish you wont know these names, its clear Han Chinease are the "enroachers"


Now, stop talking nonsense and embarrasing yourself like this. Make up your mind, your either Chinease or American, if your a Chinease in America well damn you must have trouble sleeping at night. Dont you know? America is OPENLY funding Uygur Turks to establish an autonomous state and break away from China, it funds them, provides Television channels and exposes Chinease cruelty.

Once again, "Dont throw stones if you live in a Glass House"

Its really easy to just jump on the BandWagon and talk rubbish about Turks but were not living in the 80's, were Young Turks in just entering our 20's this is a new era, we are more educated, growing in prosperity and will get our views across.

Dont think you can spead, your Midnight Express type racist bullcrap with us Mae.


Admin note:
Please use the "Add image to post" feature or just give the link to the image if the image has a width of more than 500 pixels.

Also please note our rules regarding images:
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/rules.html

[kalamaras74]

Who does this? How do these maps relate to the initial quote you were refuting? How Turks are the victims in the grand scheme of things because they are confined merely to Anatolia these days.

It was good for a laugh anyway.

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

Kalamaras, we suffered, 5.5 million of our people slaughtered, they wanted to confine Turkey into a little puppet state around Ankara.

Everything we have is because we achieved it not because it was handed on a platter.

Now as you have little love for Turks, it wouldnt matter if 1 or 10 million were slaughtered.

You can't even show compassion for our suffering in Cyprus.

And then you think that we would want to Unify with a people who clearly have no respect for us.