Cyprus-Forum.com

[Sotos]

no point in history was cyprus greek but still we are greeks!!!

So Lala are we "Greek" Cypriots or Greek "Cypriots"?

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

no point in history was cyprus greek but still we are greeks!!!

Of course you are Greeks, what I am explaining is Greeks didnt rule the Island in their modern sense (Orthodox Christian).

Is anyone going to seriously try and say that the Venetians and Crusaders treated the average Greek better than the Turks

Cypez
this is an approach created, and is no more than 200 years old. these things got stuck into our heads due to the nationalists ideals spreading throughout europe first and the world later on. we are just people, who could communicate before we were divided, and it is only when we get these nationalism out of our heads we will manage to move on.

You see you totally overlook the REASON, why these ideologies and thoughts are modern.

When the Ottomans ruled, they had a just system and respected the Greeks who were allowed to rule their own people, now some die-hard anti-Turk Greeks like to pretend Ottomans were so terrible but the fact remains there alive today and where allowed to keep their language, religion and cultulre.

We could have so easily exterminated every Greek from the Island of Cyprus just as European powers did in land they conquered, now theres a fact you all HATE to hear.

As the Ottomans werent hell-bent of wiping Greeks off the face of the Island, the Cypriot Society grew closer bonds and ties and really didn't have any problems.

This GOLDEN AGE, of Cyprus which you ALL REFER TO, is the Ottoman Age my friends, so sorry to tell you

Now, the problem is, when the Ottoman power of the Island was taken away and later the Greeks gained power over the Island they adopted IN-HUMANE methods and employed Barbaric acts to "purify" the Island of Turks in a mass-Genocide.

The Greek Junta and EOKA are the sole culprits of the problems, they where the ones who bought this Nationalism here, they where the ones who emphasised the National Differences and Superiority of Greeks who could not live with the Inferior Turks who hence must be SLAUGHTERED.

THe Greek Forces caused total oppression and misery, there was no law and order or any justice, the only justice was being persecuted solely for being a TURK.

Now after 15 years of this kind of treatment, it became very clear to Turks how much Greek Cypriots hate us and are not the same with us and that there is no notion of CYPRIOT as if there was, WHY WOULD WE BE TARGETS.

Therefore, today, the Turkish National Awareness is far greater than even my parents and especially Grand-parents. The Turkish Cypriot youth of today are more Nationalist than their parents and especially grand-parents. And are proud of their Identity and cultural/historical legacy.

This plague of Nationalism is what killed 3 million of my people in the Balkans simply for being Muslim (even non-Turks are collectively labelled Muslims in the Balkans).

Greeks had a German Prince Otto installed as their leaders, instead of the legendary Phanarite Greek family who governed the Greeks during Ottoman times.

Over 6 million refugees from the Balkans and Caucauses flooded into modern day Turkiye. Telling of the unspeakable horrors comitted against them, they were explaining to the people of Turkiye thing about Nationalism A WORD THEY HAD NO CONCEPT OF.

With so many refugees, so much tragedy, they had to do somthing to unite and stand strong against the threat which wished to exterminate all our people and occupy their land, thus Turkish Nationalism was born.

The Ottoman Empire collapsed, Turkish people's rose and fought a Legendary War against the Brittish, French, Russian, Greeks, Armenians and Itallians all at once, defeated them all and founded Modern-day Turkiye.

Many Turkish Cypriots went to fight in this war for the AnaVatan, I'm very proud to know my forefathers were among these brave men and woman.

There is no point getting upset about this, if you wanna look at the cause TAKE A GOOD LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

[cypezokyli]

my point in nationalism, is that it causes pointles deaths from all sides. just like in the balkan nationalism that u rightly mention, killed many innocent people, so did the turkish nationalism and that a very good reason for all of us to get rid of it...wouldnt you say ?

as for your history views, there are some truths, but...kind of one-sided

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

No your missing the point.

Why would a previously not so Nationalist Nation as Turks suddenly become Nationalist?

People never like to look to the route of issues when it doesnt suit them.

Turkish Nationalism was a Response, a very important response when you realise that over 5 million of our people where killed in the Balkans and Caucauses from 1850's onwards due to, European inspired Nationaslim.

Over 5 million refugees entered Turkey in such a short period, most the Balkan nations already had independance by WW1.

In order to save themselves from exterminaton, Turkish Nationalism rose as a Pax-Ottoman//Pax-Turcica movement to unite all people against common Imperialist Invaders who sought to split the land into little Economic Precoriates and install their European puppet leaders.

Greeks today are still fed these European inspired propoganda stories, they fail to mention that the Crusades PILLAGED AND RAPED the lands Greeks lived, that they LOOTED Constantinople, that they desecrated the Aya Sofya and called Greek Orthodoxy a HERETIK.

In places like Al-Qudds/Jerusalem, they slaughtered all the Greek Orthodox in the city aswell as the Muslims and Jews.

They tried to force Greeks into Catholicism, Greek Orthodoxy had to go underground.

Then they put a German Prince Otto as ruler of Greece, why not the Phanaronites who were true Greeks? cos they just used the people, they turned Greek against Turk against Bulgarian against Macedon etc, who wins out of this? none of the people in this region certainly dont, while were slaughtering each other, those European FatCats were sitting back laughing in sick demented pleasure at what they had created.

They had always been second best to the East, (Greece is really a part of the East/Mediterranean-Levant) and jelous, at last they had succeeded, not by fighting us directly but by turning every one against each other.

If for the last 80 years, the Balkan states, Turkey and the Levant had been allies the people would be reaping the benefits today but unfortunately like idiots while we fight like kids in the playground where just doing what those who created this mess wanted.

At least, these days there is some hope, with Greek mainland pollitics and Turkish who have amazingly for the time- being put differences aside (somthing the Western Europe really hates)

These and many other events are simply not told to todays Greeks, its as if, the Ottomans are the big bad guys and Europe always loved and supported the Greeks any1 with a basic knowledge of history knows this is utter bullsh*T.

Turkish Nationalism was a last resort, a reaction to those who planned to eliminate us, if you were invaded by Brittish, French, Russians, Greeks, Armenians, Itallians.... all at the same time I think you'd be a little Nationalistic aswell.

[Piratis]

Turkish Nationalism was a Response, a very important response when you realise that over 5 million of our people where killed in the Balkans and Caucauses from 1850's onwards due to, European inspired Nationaslim.

Sorry that people wanted to be liberated by the Ottoman rule

The amounts of Greeks, Armenians and others that the Turks have killed or forced to live from their homeland is much greater than that.

Greeks today are still fed these European inspired propoganda stories, they fail to mention that the Crusades PILLAGED AND RAPED the lands Greeks lived, that they LOOTED Constantinople, that they desecrated the Aya Sofya and called Greek Orthodoxy a HERETIK.

Why should they mention anything? That belongs to the past. Today EU is one, and all the wars that Europeans had among them, even the worst ones like WWII belong to the past.

The difference with Turkey, is that not only they do not apologize for their crimes, not only they continue to give lame excuses for them and pretend they never happened, but continue the illegalities and the aggression as we speak.

Turks instead of choosing unity and respect to international law, they choose conflict and war, and they insist on the violation of the human, legal and democratic rights of Greek Cypriots and the illegal occupation of the independent and sovereign Republic of Cyprus.
When you continue like this today then how will it be possible that these problems will become part of the past, like they did with the other European countries, and finally be able to forget about them and move ahead?

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

Pirastis
Why should they mention anything? That belongs to the past. Today EU is one, and all the wars that Europeans had among them, even the worst ones like WWII belong to the past.

So why is IRA still fighting, why is North and South Ireland in War, what is ETA doing, why are there still land claims between France and Germany, you live in an enclosed box and are un-aware of Real Politik.

Pirastis
The amounts of Greeks, Armenians and others that the Turks have killed or forced to live from their homeland is much greater than that.

Again more baseless nonsense.

Remember, it was Armenians and Greeks who declared war on the Turks and invaded modern day Turkiye.

The problem is you lost the War and so feel bitter and upset over your own disgrace.

Over 5 million of our people where slaughtered, over 5 million made to flee and be refugees to todays Turkey.

You've been bought up with a cocktail of anti-Turk lies, your of the old school my friend, these days these kinds of propoganda's are being exposed and the world will understand our plight and suffering and what we have been through.

Books on these events have JUST began to be written and printed to the Western Audience

Death and Exile: The Ethnic Cleansing of Ottoman Muslims, 1821-1922 (Hardcover)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/087850 ... e&n=283155

Our blood is not cheaper than yours, we are not a lesser people, we are not animals for slaughter house, we have emotions aswell and were sick and tired of how you sit their bawling your eyes out over your losses while denying us to grieve our loved ones.

This is changing, the realities are just beginning to be exposed and the Western World will discover these facts.

People like you will never be able to snap out of the hold King German OTTO put over you, you carry on admiring your European sugar dadies but remember, Greeks were influenced by the East not by the West

[cypezokyli]

No your missing the point.

Why would a previously not so Nationalist Nation as Turks suddenly become Nationalist?

why all the people living under the non-oppresive ottoman empire suddenly revolt?

Turkish Nationalism was a Response, a very important response when you realise that over 5 million of our people where killed in the Balkans and Caucauses from 1850's onwards due to, European inspired Nationaslim

.
to what was balkan nationalism a response to?

...dont disagree with you what the crusader did.

If for the last 80 years, the Balkan states, Turkey and the Levant had been allies the people would be reaping the benefits today but unfortunately like idiots while we fight like kids in the playground where just doing what those who created this mess wanted.

At least, these days there is some hope, with Greek mainland pollitics and Turkish who have amazingly for the time- being put differences aside (somthing the Western Europe really hates)

i agree with you here...except from the part that europe doesnot want greek and tuks to cooperate. but i like what you said about the balkans.

Then they put a German Prince Otto as ruler of Greece, why not the Phanaronites who were true Greeks? cos they just used the people, they turned Greek against Turk against Bulgarian against Macedon etc, who wins out of this? none of the people in this region certainly dont, while were slaughtering each other, those European FatCats were sitting back laughing in sick demented pleasure at what they had created.

funny , i had the same discussion last night with a greek communist. i dont disagree with the big powers make us fight. in the balkans and in cyprus as well. and you know i can excuse it in the past bc people were illeterate. today, that we studied, and we all know about it , what do we do? we still accuse each other. so as far as i am concerned, firstly its the fault of those who accuse each other than those who put them against each other to fight. as a concequence if we really want to take "revenge" on the western powers , the best way is to make peace between us . the question is , did we learn from the past? do we want to learn from the past?

[bg_turk]

Over 5 million refugees entered Turkey in such a short period, most the Balkan nations already had independance by WW1.

Very true:

Death and exile: the ethnic cleansing of Ottoman Muslims, 1821-1922

http://www.jstor.org/view/01979183/di009794/00p0244f/0

http://www.jstor.org/view/00207438/ap010095/01a00280/0

http://www.jstor.org/view/00028762/di981923/98p1040p/0

In the course of the century between the Greek war of independence and World War I, the Ottoman Empire suffered five and a half million dead and five million refugees. He deems this Europe's largest lost of life and emigration since the Thirty Years' War. Christian suffering in this time and place is well-known; McCarthy shows the other side, that "Muslim communities in an area as large as all of western Europe had been diminished or destroyed."

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

Exactly Bg_Turks, these are the kind of things Greeks have never been exposed to or told ever.

Cypez
why all the people living under the non-oppresive ottoman empire suddenly revolt?

Again your mistaken.

The Greeks, Armenians, Serbs, King Faud (Saudi Family), Macedons etc

While Boshnaks fought with us, Albanians/Kosovans were stuck in a corner, Cherkez fought with us, Chechens fought with us, Turks from Turkestan came and Pakistani's.......

Basically, Christians of the Empire were more susceptable to European Nationalism as they were Christian.

Dont foget there were powerfull Balkan fammilies and dynasties, European powers promised them a large state each for co-operation.

Being Christian, Pax-Ottoman didnt mean as much to them naturally, however, in order to gain land they had to make their proposed state majority Christian in order to do so they had to kill and expell the Muslims on that land.

Once this had been done, European powers could say the people have a right to rule, they would enter fight the Ottomans INSTALL a ruler and fund the state.

The problem is, the Europeans didn't really give a DAMN about anyone in the Balkans and they PURPOSELY divided it in such a way that it could only cause conflict. For eg, Greek areas were left in Bulgaria, Albanian areas left in Macedonia, Boshnak land left in Serbia etc etc

Then the rulers of these states fuelled by European Nationalism would only care about their peoples, in Bulgaria the ruler would only care about Bulgarians and neglect others. Obviously a RECIPE FOR DISASTER, which is exactly what happened, it brewed up for 60 years and then exploded into the violence in the Balkans.

If the semi-Autonate states as they had been in Ottoman times had recieved FULL Autonomy the crippling Wars in the Balkans to a large extent would never had happened.

Instead there could have been an EU Style Union, you may be thinking HELL NO A UNION WITH TURKS THOSE TERRIBLE MUSLIMS etc etc etc well thats exactly what European Nationalism has taught you.

Now try thinking "OUT OF THE BOX", we dont really have such a terrible history together if we compare it to European history. I mean for 1000 years European states were in total War, English vs French for 100 years war, Poland was wiped off the map, Germans and French killed millions of each others people, the Protestant Catholics Wars, Sectarian wars etc.

When you analyse European nations their people actually HATE the living guts out of the others and have little in common with each other and little to build on, this is why the EU is solely pollitical and very FRAGILE.

If among the Balkan states, Eastern European, Turkey, Levant etc a Union is created, its actually on a more solid base than the EU, it sounds weird I know.

But, look at the history, there is actually not nearly as many wars and deaths as in between European powers. We have quite alot in common and have connections to each other wether we Like it or Not.

Who would HATE to see this be realised? yes of course, Western/Central Europe.

Their sole aim is to put divides and play upon what can cause hatred between the people, remember a stable Greece, Turkey, Bulgaria etc etc lets just say Balkans is their WORST NIGHTMARE.

Why do you think, Turks/Albanians/Boshnaks/Kosovans/Chechens/Pakistanis/Cherkez/Indian Muslims/Malays/Maghreb people get on very well today and the ties are being strengthened.

The Panaronite Greeks werent very keen in letting German King Otto rule them, Bulgaria got partitioned into little pieces, Macedonia got robbed.

The Europeans didn't really give you guys a good deal when you look at the grisly details.