Cyprus-Forum.com

[brother]

I would say that is a fair description of the current situation.

[MicAtCyp]

Why do you think TCs have no freedom of decision? Because they're isolated from the world, their economy is completely dependent on Turkey, their transportation is only possible through Turkey, they're not allowed to participate in any international events. So TCs have 2 choices, accept Turkey's domination or accept GC domination. Which one would you choose?

Yes, but if those restrictions were lifted the TCs would not want a solution either because a solution would deprive them controlling double the geographical area and 5 times the economic activity of what they should.(Notice that prior to 1974 70% of the economic activity was at the presently occupied areas). Besides you seem to forget that what preserves the system in the north (whatever that might be) is the Turkish Army.The TCs would never dare get rid of the Turkish army and create their own.So in the end what you are suggesting is us to resign from our rights.

PS.The TCs could never imagine what would mean to place their fate in the hands of Turkey. They learned that after 1974. And the lesson was very bitter. Like we the GCs learned the same lesson a bit earlier....The problem is that the TCs got trapped and don't know how to escape...

[metecyp]

The problem is that the TCs got trapped and don't know how to escape...

Correct and most TCs who would rather live in a united federal Cyprus along with the GCs than under the domination of Turkey. TCs are looking for ways to "escape" from the current situation and they obviously look to the south for cooperation but your side prefers the current status to a compromise solution. Papadopoulos himself said yesterday that he prefers the current situation to a solution that doesn't meet his demands.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that don't blame TCs to be ruled by Turkey right now because there's no other choice and don't assume that TCs love to be ruled by Turkey or they'll choose to be ruled by Turkey in a federal Cyprus in case of a solution.

[brother]

Will we ever find peace and tranquility is the most asked question by tc, and the answwer is with ROC and TURKEY, and it all depends on who has more goodwill.

[MicAtCyp]

TCs are looking for ways to "escape" from the current situation and they obviously look to the south for cooperation but your side prefers the current status to a compromise solution.

No thats not true. We do want an fair compromise.So far we are the ones who made compromises.Tell me one compromise the TC side has ever done.
And don't tell me they accepted to move to a new house instead of the one they illegally use now, and don't tell me they accepted 35K settlers to stay with their families=all settlers, and don't tell me they accepted to reduce the Turkish Army to what it should be on the first place.
Just the mere fact that we accepted a Federal solution means an endless chain of additional compromises ALL of which affect negatively ONLY the GCs!

the point I was trying to make is that don't blame TCs to be ruled by Turkey right now because there's no other choice

Of course I don't blame the TCs for that ! But I cannot blame ourselves (the GCs) either!
So if noone is to blame then whose fault is it?

[Piratis]

So if noone is to blame then whose fault is it?

For the events of 74 the blame goes mainly to Greece, Turkey and the GC traitors.
For todays situation the blame goes to Turkey and the TCs that continue to support the occupation, 30 years after the 1974 events.
The rest TCs as well as the GCs are the victims.

[brother]

There is still some blame there for the ROC as well.

[metecyp]

And don't tell me they accepted to move to a new house instead of the one they illegally use now, and don't tell me they accepted 35K settlers to stay with their families=all settlers, and don't tell me they accepted to reduce the Turkish Army to what it should be on the first place.

You're confused about the definition of compromise. Let's take the Republic of Cyprus as a starting point and investigate who is compromising from what since the collapse of the bicommunal nature of the republic in 1963.

You said that the fact that the GC side accepted a federal solution is a compromise. Ok I agree with that because a federal solution means GCs need to share their internationally recognized state with TCs, so that's a compromise from what they have today.

On the other hand, TCs do not compromise when they abondon the idea of TRNC. They don't compromise when they gave up the security provided by the Turkish army. They don't compromise when they give back land and accept to live with some GCs. These are not compromises because TCs were not supposed to have these anyway. Am I getting this right?

Now, tell me. Were GCs supposed to have the RC just for themselves for all these years? I suppose not. So when GCs give up something they're not supposed to have (i.e. rule the island on their own), it's a compromise, but when TCs give up something there'not supposed to have (TRNC, land, etc.), it's not a compromise?

So what would be a true compromise by TCs according to you? Giving up our rights in the RC would be a compromise?

[Piratis]

Metecyp, If I say that the whole world belongs to me and then I accept to have just half of it, is this considered a compromise?
Obviously not!

A compromise is when you accept not to have something, or to have less of something, that is your right to have.

So tell me something that is the right of TCs (and support your opinion) and that TCs accepted to give up or to have less off.

TCs do not compromise when they abondon the idea of TRNC

Is it a right of the TCs to cut a part of Cyprus just for themselves? If it was then the Cyprus problem would not be a problem.

don't compromise when they gave up the security provided by the Turkish army

Do Turkish Cypriots have the right of 35.000 troops in Cyprus?
According to the 1960 agreements only 650 Turkish soldiers could stay in Cyprus. A compromise would be if Turkish Cypriots accepted that no Turkish soldier would be in Cyprus, or at least that the number would be less than 650.

They don't compromise when they give back land and accept to live with some GCs.

So TCs have the right to steal land, and the right to be separated from other Cyprus citizens? I don't think so.

Now, tell me. Were GCs supposed to have the RC just for themselves for all these years? I suppose not. So when GCs give up something they're not supposed to have (i.e. rule the island on their own)

We never said that we should have RC just for our own, and actually we don't since your 18% occupies 37% of the RC land. So how can you claim that we have the rule of the whole island for our own????
The only reason that we are now alone in the free part of Republic of Cyprus today is the Turkish occupation.

We never asked to have the total control of the whole island. This was not our right, and we do not ask for such thing.

What we ask for is only what is our right

Examples:
1)The right of free movement in our country
2)The right of property
3)Democracy

So Metecyp, until today we were balancing between our true universally accepted and legal rights, and your illegal and outrageous demands.

So if you want to make compromises then accept not to have something that it is your right to have. But wait, we don't ask you even that!! All we are asking is to minimize your outrageous demands to a level that we can handle so less of our rights will be sacrificed.

[metecyp]

So if you want to make compromises then accept not to have something that it is your right to have. But wait, we don't ask you even that!! All we are asking is to minimize your outrageous demands to a level that we can handle so less of our rights will be sacrificed.

I think we have a fundamental difference here. Here are some facts. GCs wanted enosis, TCs wanted partition and union with Turkey instead. From Enosis, GCs accepted the RC (compromise) and so did TCs (compromise). After 1974, the GC accepted bicommunal bizonal federation (compromise) and TCs moved in the direction of an independent state. After all these years, TCs realized that the independent state is not a good idea so they turned back to a bicommunal bizonal federation (compromise).

What would be ideal for GCs is to have one person one vote rule, all refugees return back, all troops out, all settlers out. What would be ideal of TCs is to have their ethnically pure independent state. But both sides know that these demands are not feasible, so they compromise and reach something in the middle.

You're trying to ignore what happenned for 30 years in Cyprus. Whether you like it or not, these things happenned in the north and now we're trying to unroll these changes with a solution and any move in that direction is a compromise. Your problem is that you look into problems in strictly legal terms but you know that legality and reality might be different.

Tell me one compromise that you believe TCs can make to match the big compromise GCs made by accepting bicommunal bizonal federation?