Cyprus-Forum.com

[joe]

Chapter 4: Who Were the Macedonians?

pp. 77-78

Yea you have a great night too.

[Piratis]

Right! Princeton, Harvard, University of California and many others are makin propaganda and your Hellenic page is telling the absolute truth. Please wake up!

Those are not from the universities themselves, but people that published their books using the universities publishing houses.

Everybody knows that Alexander the Great is Greek, except the ones that have no civilization for themselves and they are trying to steal the civilization of others.

Greeks have made so many achievements that the Greek civilization is taught in every university in the world. Alexander the Great was only a tiny part of this great civilization. How many universities do you know offering courses about the "Turkish civilization"? Does such thing even exist?

Macedonia is Greek, it has always been. The slavs, turks etc have not even been around at that time!!

[BirKibrisli]

Piratis,
There are a lot of universities in the world which have Turcology departments,and teach about Turkish civilisation. I know of one in Sydney,and I believe there is even one in the RoC.
The Ottoman empire was started by Turkic tribes which emigrated from central Asia and settled in Anatolia.During its long period of expansion and rule,the Ottoman's lost most of their Turkishness,became truly multicultural,and absorbed a lot of the customs and traditions of the Greeks,theArabs,Persians,Armenians,Slavs,Bulgarians...you name it.
The tragedy of the Turks is that when their empire faced extinction,in their panic and confusion they went back to their roots,and given the trends at the time chose nationalism instead of multiculturalism.They had no choice really,as the Sultan was ready to become a British Mandate,and most of the country was invaded by the British,French,Italians,and of course the Greeks as you are well aware.
The British allowed the Greeks to invade to keep the Italians in check,and the Greeks were given false hopes of reestablishing the Byzantine empire with Istanbul(Constantinoble) as its capital.Those people who call themselves "Turks" in modern Turkey have very little to do (genetically or culturally) with the original Turkomans who invaded Anatolia all those years ago.But having rejected the notion that they are more like Greeks,Yugoslavs,Bulgarians,Russians,Jews and Armenians than anything else,modern Turks somewhat romantically and nostalgically see themselves as continuation of a "nation and culture" which has been extinct for a long time. They are in limbo culturally and historically.Hence their need to glorify their past as warriors and conquerors.This denies the real richness of the Turkish culture and civilisation,which is a huge mosaic of many European cultures and civilisations including of course the Byzantine.Make no mistake about it,the Turks have been very influential in the history and culture of the world.They just haven't come to terms with it yet.And neither has the rest of the world.

[cypezokyli]

totally agree.
nationalism was unfortunately a choise of all balkan nations, and europe, which destroyed the multicutlural character of many countries.

if anyone is interested in turkish studies, in the university of cyprus : http://www.hum.ucy.ac.cy/TME/index.php

[Michael]

Piratis,
There are a lot of universities in the world which have Turcology departments,and teach about Turkish civilisation. I know of one in Sydney,and I believe there is even one in the RoC.
The Ottoman empire was started by Turkic tribes which emigrated from central Asia and settled in Anatolia.During its long period of expansion and rule,the Ottoman's lost most of their Turkishness,became truly multicultural,and absorbed a lot of the customs and traditions of the Greeks,theArabs,Persians,Armenians,Slavs,Bulgarians...you name it.
The tragedy of the Turks is that when their empire faced extinction,in their panic and confusion they went back to their roots,and given the trends at the time chose nationalism instead of multiculturalism.They had no choice really,as the Sultan was ready to become a British Mandate,and most of the country was invaded by the British,French,Italians,and of course the Greeks as you are well aware.
The British allowed the Greeks to invade to keep the Italians in check,and the Greeks were given false hopes of reestablishing the Byzantine empire with Istanbul(Constantinoble) as its capital.Those people who call themselves "Turks" in modern Turkey have very little to do (genetically or culturally) with the original Turkomans who invaded Anatolia all those years ago.But having rejected the notion that they are more like Greeks,Yugoslavs,Bulgarians,Russians,Jews and Armenians than anything else,modern Turks somewhat romantically and nostalgically see themselves as continuation of a "nation and culture" which has been extinct for a long time. They are in limbo culturally and historically.Hence their need to glorify their past as warriors and conquerors.This denies the real richness of the Turkish culture and civilisation,which is a huge mosaic of many European cultures and civilisations including of course the Byzantine.Make no mistake about it,the Turks have been very influential in the history and culture of the world.They just haven't come to terms with it yet.And neither has the rest of the world.

are you taking the piss? "Turcology" departments ? That would be a very short course indeed!!

[bg_turk]

Those are not from the universities themselves, but people that published their books using the universities publishing houses.

Oh, so before they were "FYROM" propaganda(what is that? do you mean the Republic of Macedonia?), now they are just using those universitye publishing houses? All these American Universities must be hellbent on publishing this anti-greek propaganda. hehehehe

Everybody knows that Alexander the Great is Greek, except the ones that have no civilization for themselves and they are trying to steal the civilization of others.

Greeks have made so many achievements that the Greek civilization is taught in every university in the world. Alexander the Great was only a tiny part of this great civilization. How many universities do you know offering courses about the "Turkish civilization"? Does such thing even exist?

Keep your eyes shut proud child of Hellene.
Glorifying hellenic culture by stealing the Macedonian History is a very good way to pursuade other people of your civility

Macedonia is Greek, it has always been. The slavs, turks etc have not even been around at that time!!

What your motherland failed to achieve in Cyprus, she achieved in Macedonia - she hellenized the region and ethnicall cleansed all of its original inhabitants.

The only reason Ancient Macedonia is claimed to be Greek today is not because there are good historical reasons for that, it is because the Greek regime needs to somehow justify the ethnic cleansing of 51% of the region of Macedonia of the Slavic Macedonians. Greece is desperate to prove Macedonia Greek, otherwise what justification would she have had to invade that land and wipe it out of its slavs.

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

There are Turcology departments across the world my friend

BirKibrisli, your knowledge of history is really quite shocking, which department of Turcology are you sturding in lol, come to mine I'll show you real non-Turk Lecturers who can break it down for you in managable chunks that you may be able to cope with.

Turk Tribes have been making migrations to this area for thousands of years.

Most notably before the "Legendary Oguz" (as they are called anyone in this field recognises this term), were Avar-Hun-Pechen-Gok Turk-Khazar (also Magyar and Bulgar but after they adopted Christianity they developed a new identity).

These Turk tribes not only entered and settled in the region, they greatly influenced it and set up Empires and States. For example the Khazar Turks set up a great flourishing "Multi-Cultural" State, in which all people were welcomned and accepted, it was the most humane, tolerant and advanced state of its time and was situated in the from South of todays Azerbaycan to into Ukraine and Ozbekistan(Central Asia/Turkestan) to the East. This began around 300/400 Ad.

While Jews were being Genocided and later on when Muslims arrived and were living in oppression in Byzantine land, in the Khazar State all had the right to live.

Infact it became known as a Judeo-Turk Empire as Judaism became adopted as the State Religion, while all other religions were allowed to abide to their religous laws.

Thanks to them Europe has cities like, Kiev, Kiev is a Turk place name (Küi = riverbank + ev = settlement).

In addition the Avars had a state in Europe, the Huns ruled half of Europe and caused a mass migration of other tribes.

Now these regions where not at all distant to Turkestan (Central Asia), many states bordered both into Turkestan and into Europe. So the gates had already been open, the tribes already in these new European/Caucaus areas were small in number and of different Nations, they were ABSORBED into the Turk nation, this is why its possible to have Blue Eyed Blonde Haired Turks aswell and its well noted that their were "White" tribes among the traditional "Turk" looking tribes in the Nation of the Turks (please understand the Difference between "Nation" and "Country" its completely different)

Aswell as this, Turks had no concept of "race" and "ethnicity" of being of any importance like Europeans and their created Nationalism does. YOu could "become" a Turk and as Race wasnt important, these non-Turk tribes who were aborbed into becomming Turk were equal Turks and the same as Ethnic Turks. This is the beauty of it all and how we managed to be so succesfull and spread so far.

So these Turk tribes and aborbed (non-Turk) tribes who were Turkified were in huge numbers.

Then after all this did the Legendary Oguz came, whose population was estimated at over 5 million, Boz-Ok and Uc-Ok, each of 24 tribes, I mean they were HUGE, can you imagine such an enourmous mass migration.

When they came the Turks already in the region (remember all they did was migrate to the other side of the Caspian Sea, the East of which is Turkestan) the Turks in the region joined under the Banner of the Oguz Turks, it caused full unity among the Turk tribes and gave a united purpose and goal, REALISING there is power in numbers and unity they engulfed the entire region, there numbers where so high that other tribes in the region were also Absorbed making their numbers even higher.

However, this was accepted assimilation, they never practiced forced Assimilation and this is why there are still Armenians, Cherkez, Greek etc however, many of these accepted Turkishness and joined the mass Tribes.

The Oguz Turks already had taken charge of Baghdad from the inside (in addition to the other Turks, mass amounts were bought into the Islamic Empire and they assumed power from the inside)

They had connections here aswell and then they adopted Islam, many Muslim tribes joined them aswell in their push Westwards.

Turks always had a policy in which, the male were allowed to marry non-Turks (as the resulting family would become Turks) however, woman would marry Turks, therefore our woman will have more Turk in them, also for eg if a Turk male married a non-Turk the son of that family was able to marry a Turk woman as he would be a Turk therefore while creating a mix of blood it also kept the people Turks, a very smary policy.

From these rose states such as, Gaznivids in Iran-Afganistan-India, Great Selcuks, Selcuks of the Rum, AkKoyunlu, KaraKoyunlu, Artukid, Safavids, Mamluks, Tullinids, the Beyliks, AtaBeykliks, and the OTTOMANS who were from the "Kayi" branch of the Oguz Turk Clans.

Next mass waves of Turks came during the "Golden Horde" Mongols, who subsequently became Turkified and taken over from the inside.

After that during the time, of the Great Amir Timur another mass migration of Turks entered Middle East/Caucaus/Turkiye.

The result being, in roughly 2000 years a vast non-Turk area has been Turkified and all in these regions influenced by the Turks to a certain degree.

The Turks who settled, as has been clearly explained mixed with many other non-Turks, many Non-Turks were absorbed into becomming Turks and Race doesnt play of any importance of significance.

The Turks policy was smart and diplomatic, in the areas they entered, first they would learn the culture/customs/people and ways of the land and how to adapt and suit to it.

After learning this, they would take the "best" aspects of these people and cultures and adopt it as there own and "Turkify" it to suit themselves, therefore while in its route there are aspects of "Turkish" culture which of-course are non-Turk however, this is only in their route as the Turks modified and adopted it to suit their needs under their terms.

The result being, all the best aspects of the different cultures were adopted, Turkish culture always stayed at the route of things and they expanded upon this and improved it while adding new originally foreign but "Turkified" aspects to it.

By doing this, they were able to impose "Turkish" culture on non-Turks, as the non-Turks could notice somthinig similar to their most prized and respected cultural developments, seeing this they would be convinced that this "Turkish" culture is fantastic and would adopt it.

Why do you think today "Greek" culture is actually so influenced by Turkish culture that you can't live a day without experiencing it to some degree.

Look at your food, where do you think "Dolmades" comes from? Dolma = To Fill in Turkish, its made all across Turkestan, or Turkish Coffee which is drank in Greece, or Backgammon which you play, or Chay which you drink, Kebabs you eat, Baklava for your desserts. The "Bozouki" which you play = Bashi-Bozuk, a Turkish word meaning, Crazy Head, your Dances, regional Dress and Headscarfs, Hamams which are built around you etc etc etc

Wether you like it or not, your culture is so heavily influenced by Turkish that by calling Turks, Barbarians or Inferior people with no Civilisation or Culture = Greeks have no Culture or Civilisation and are Inferior people aswell.

Cos lets face it, the only difference is you speak Greek and are Christian.

If you spoke Turkish and were Muslim you'd be Turks and fit just in

But as I said, there is no forced compulsion to make people Turks, they must become Turks out of their own free will if they are to experience this wonderfull cultural aspect.

Birkibrisli, one day you will meet Azeri Turks, Ozbek Turks, Turkmens, Chuvash Turks, Kazakhs, Uygur Turks etc and realise the realities.

If you dont know somthing, theres no harm in asking get a ticket and fly out to Turkmenistan, Ozbekistan etc I'm going on another field trip very soon, you'd be deeply shocked by the similarities, even Greeks would be shocked by how close they are to them



Hey, do you know this Turkish Cypriot Girl, oooh jeeez I forgot, she's a Turk from EASTERN TURKESTAN (Modern day Uygur Turk province in Western CHINA)



Hey, is that my Amca at the local Demirci Carsisi, damn I mixed them up again, this is a Demirci Carsi in Eastern TURKESTAN.



Two Turkish Cypriot Girls in Local Dress, noooooo wait a minute a mean two Ozbek Turk Girls in Local Dress

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/2/2d/200px-IlhanMansiz.jpg

And whose this lol,



And whats this, a Tatar Kizi





And some Black Turks from Mediterranean Turkey.

1 thing in common, theyre all Turks, obviously you can see different races and ethnicities but this means nothing, they speak Turkish, feel Turkish and therefore are Turks equal to me to Bg_Turk and in our "Turk Millet" Nation

If anyone wishes to be provided with any material, help, recommendations etc feel free to ask.

Everybody knows that Alexander the Great is Greek, except the ones that have no civilization for themselves and they are trying to steal the civilization of others.

Greeks have made so many achievements that the Greek civilization is taught in every university in the world. Alexander the Great was only a tiny part of this great civilization. How many universities do you know offering courses about the "Turkish civilization"? Does such thing even exist?

No, knowone I have ever met (apart from Greeks) have ever said Alex the Macedonian was a Greek.

I mean pick up any non-Greek history book, dont you have BBC lol they made loads of programs about this.

[cypezokyli]

lala, i have no reason to argue against your posts historical facts. some of your conclusions..i ll answer later.
just a comment bc i do this for years... the costumes you have posted can come from any place you want, but they are not from cyprus. believe me, thats not the traditional cypriot costume.
i also know, tcs who during the denktash era were punished for wearing a black vraka (the cypriot one) and not the blue that peole wear in turkey (and in crete btw). and the vraka, we all got from the arabs.

if u r indeed interested in cyprus costumes :
http://www.folk-arts.org/Foundation/foundationAbout.htm

for a better look
cypriot women costumes
http://www.asvestades.netfirms.com/042_kipros.jpg
http://www.asvestades.netfirms.com/043_kipros.jpg

for men
http://www.asvestades.netfirms.com/041_kipros.jpg


and now your turn . where do these come from?
http://www.asvestades.netfirms.com/008_kipros.jpg
cyprus, greece, bulgaria, or turkey?

and these ?
http://www.asvestades.netfirms.com/040_kipros.jpg

[Sotos]

nice girls Lala. But when I search google images for "turkish girl" this was the first result:

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

Cypezokyli, exactly this is what I am saying, the cultures have fused so much that today there are many similarities between, Balkans, Turkey, Greece, Middle East, Caucases, Azerbaycan, even Central Asia.

So all this nonsense that Turks are culturless, Greeks don't exist is nonsense as there has been a fusion and what has been created is wonderfull and beautiful.

Are you gonna stop drinking Turkish Coffee, eating some of the foods you eat, listening to Turkish influenced music, chuck away your traditional clothes, stop dancing, am I gonna stop eating Fish/Sea Food dishes (we had no Sea Fish/Sea Food knowledge and alot of our names for these concepts are taken from Greeks, thanks Greeks ), stopping Greek Influenced Dances, stop using Greek influened boats lol

Common.