Cyprus-Forum.com

[joe]

To Pasha, thats why i supplied the link..it answers Bg Turks propoganda. If you would like me to respond exactly to the question of Demosthenes then take a look at this link http://www.greece.org/themis/macedonia/faq.htm#13
Have fun reading it. Ohh by the way, this tomb that has been recovered a few days ago is real. You will probably will be able to visit it soon and see all the Greek writings, greek curency and what not. They say its a tomb of a person that was well known, maybe Alexanders? The foreign press is making it a big thing. Has anyone seen pics of the findings? Check out foreign press reports here http://tinyurl.com/a53gl Its making a lot of news around the world

[bg_turk]

bg_turk, all the sources that you give are propaganda websites belonging to FYROM

FYROM?

Princeton University:
http://www.pupress.princeton.edu/titles/4547.html


Harvard University:
E. Badian, Department of History, Harvard University


The University of California:
http://www.ucpress.edu/books/sale/pages/5597.html

Some books:

[url=http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=L6xBsaLlFyYC&oi=fnd&pg=N&sig=NRcLaKmkSrheZyOyRAjsLLF3hOk&dq=language+of+the+ancient+macedonians&prev=http://scholar.google.com/scholar%3Fq%3Dlanguage%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bancient%2Bmacedonians%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D]Ancient Macedonians: Differences Between the Ancient Macedonians and the Ancient Greeks
by J S Gandeto [/url]


[url=http://books.google.com/books?ie=UTF-8&hl=en&id=CC19p0_-zBsC&dq=%22ancient+macedonia%22&prev=http://scholar.google.com/scholar%3Fq%3D%2522ancient%2Bmacedonia%2522%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN&lpg=PP9&pg=PP9&printsec=0&sig=91ps1S-AVOaaXzZ18RPXgOgG2rs]Macedonia and Greece: The Struggle to Define a New Balkan Nation
by John Shea [/url]

[bg_turk]

To Pasha, thats why i supplied the link..it answers Bg Turks propoganda.

Right! Princeton, Harvard, University of California and many others are makin propaganda and your Hellenic page is telling the absolute truth. Please wake up!

[bg_turk]

To Pasha, thats why i supplied the link..it answers Bg Turks propoganda. If you would like me to respond exactly to the question of Demosthenes then take a look at this link http://www.greece.org/themis/macedonia/faq.htm#13
Have fun reading it.

Answer:
http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/Ancie ... henes.html

Have fun reading it too.

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

Piratis, you really need help with your history my friend, the Chinease civilisation you are referring to is Han, Han is a relative of the Hun Turks.

Eastern Hun Empire reigned over China and flourished in arts and civilisation, their cousins Huns went into China and dominated all the people, do you think the people of China were all one Homogenous race lol jeeeez your basic.

Oh and read about the court of Kublia Kaan by Marco Polo in China if you want to learn somthing about civilisation.

I mean the guy sailed to the America's, these huge ships called "Junks", really amazing, not that an Ignorant like you would understand.

The Western Hun Empire were members of the great Eastern Hun Empire who great leaders like Mete Han instructed to go and explore and populate the West.

The "Storm on Horseback" was so advanced, so well equiped, such amazing fighters with the most superior technology that they bought the whole of Europe to its knees with a click of their fingers, the Roman Empire was no match and ended up serving the Huns and paying tributes to their masters

Common now, its always the case for one civilisation to call another Barbarian, Alexander the Macedonian is known as a barbarian outside of the Balkans not that it stops you loving him

I dont know if you have ever heard of a place called Turkestan, it lies on the Silk Route, if you did some research you'd discover what civilisation meant lol then if you took a trip to Turkiye you'd get a real taste even places like Iran and Egypt lol.

Again the "race" argument, one day you'll realise that people of the East and Eastern mentallity like us dont have hang-ups about Racial purity or ethnicity, you can "accept" Turkishness and many non-Turk tribes joined us and we are all equal Turks, the blue eyed, the black skinned, the Oriental looking etc that the beauty of being a Turk

JOE
To Pasha, thats why i supplied the link..it answers Bg Turks propoganda.

Damn you guys are such Extremist Closet Nationalists

However, much you try and hide this fact it always gets out.

Dont you know the clear sympoms of being an Extremist Racialist Nationlist lol.

1. You think the whole world is against you, (just look at the amount of anti-Brittish, anti-Turk, anti-Russian etc etc posts on this forum by these guys)

2. You think there is a global conspiracy against your people and that everyone spends all their time thinking about "Greeks" and how to destroy them.

3. Fear, Xenophobia is channeled to create Hatred and Unity against the "percieved" enemy ie the Turks, Brittish now the U.s lol

4. Trying to convince all your pepole your the good guys you just want peace when infact you just want to hold a grip on power and make every hate your"percieved" enemy as much as you do.

5. The assumption that everyone is trying to undermine your history and culture, the need to create lies and not allow anyone to challenge what you have brainwashed people to believe ie Alexander the Macedonian according to you is Greek, the world disagrees because its simply not the fact but according to you's this is PROOF that the World is against Greece hehehe

etc etc

I mean common, your a living example of what it is to be an Extremist Nationalist


Maybe its just that your jelous? who knows.

[joe]

http://www.macedonia.com/english/history/regions1.html

The Regions of Ancient Macedonia

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pre-Philip II:

Upper Macedonia
Ancient Name: Modern Location:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
ORESTIS Kastoria province, Greece
TYMPHAEA Grevena province, Greece
ELIMEIA S. Kozane province, Greece
EORDAEA N. Kozane province, Greece
LYNKESTIS Florina province, Greece
PELAGONIA Monastiri (Bitola), tiny area SW FYROM

Lower Macedonia

Ancient Name: Modern Location:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
AMPHAXITIS Kilkis province, Greece
ALMOPIA Pella province, Greece
PIERIA Pieria province, Greece
BOTTIAEA Emathia province, Greece
KRESTONIA N. Thessalonike province, Greece
MYGDONIA E. Thessalonike province, Greece
ANTHEMOUS S. Thessalonike province, Greece

Expansion under Philip II:

New Macedonia

Ancient Name: Modern Location:
-----------------------------------------------------------------
BISALTIA E. Thessalonike province, Greece
SINTIKE Serres province, Greece
ODOMANTIS Drama province, Greece
EDONIS Kavalla province, Greece
THASSOS Kavalla province, Greece
CHALKIDIKE Chalkidike province, Greece
SOUTHERN PAEONIA Gevgeli province, tiny area SE FYROM

http://www.unet.com.mk/oldmacedonianmap ... /mapa3.jpg

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Maps/ ... Map01.html

http://crystalinks.com/mapgreeceancient.gif

The Fyrom Slavic majority are simply West Bulgarians and have no connection
to 'Macedonia' anything:

In a letter to Prof. Marin Drinov of May 25, 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes:
"But even stranger is the name Macedonians, which was imposed on us only 10
to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own
intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient
name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one
on the other. They know the older word: "Bugari", although mispronounced:
they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other
Bulgarians. You can find more about this in the introduction to the booklets
I am sending you. They call their own Macedono-Bulgarian dialect the
"Bugarski language", while the rest of the Bulgarian dialects they refer to
as the "Shopski language". (Makedonski pregled, IX, 2, 1934, p. 55; the
original letter is kept in the Marin Drinov Museum in Sofia, and it is
available for examination and study)
Here is the text in the original:

"No pochudno e imeto Makedonci, koeto naskoro, edvay predi 10-15 godini, ni
natrapiha i to otvqn, a ne kakto nyakoi mislyat ot samata nasha
inteligenciya... Narodqt obache v Makedoniya ne znae nishto za tova
arhaichesko, a dnes, s lukava cel ot edna strana, s glupeshka ot druga,
podnoveno prozvishte; toy si znae postaroto: Bugari, makar i nepravilno
proiznasyano, daje osvoyava si go kato sobstveno i preimushtestveno svoe,
nejeli za drugite Bqlgari. Za tova shte vidite i v predgovora na izpratenite
mi knijici. Toy naricha Bugarski ezik svoeto Makaedono-bqlgarsko narechie,
kogato drugite bqlgarski narechiya naricha Shopski."

And here:

Reference source for Gotse Delchev's numerous utterings of 'We are
Bulgarians'......

http://www.ucc.ie/staff/jprodr/macedoni ... dnat2.html

Even Gotse Delchev, the famous Macedonian revolutionary leader, whose nom de
guerre was Ahil (Achilles), refers to "the Slavs of Macedonia as
'Bulgarians' in an offhanded manner without seeming to indicate that such a
designation was a point of contention" (Perry 1988:23).
In his correspondence Gotse Delchev often states clearly and simply, "We are
Bulgarians" (MacDermott 1978:192,273).

And here:

For fair use only.

http://members.tripod.com/~dimobetchev/ ... linden.htm

" Considering the critical and terrible situation that the Bulgarian
population of the Bitola Vilayet found itself in and following the ravages
and cruelties done by the Turkish troops and irregulars, ... considering
the fact that everything Bulgarian runs the risk of perishing and
disappearing without a trace because of violence, hunger, and the upcoming
misery, the Head Quarters finds it to be its obligation to draw the
attention of the respected Bulgarian government to the pernicious
consequences vis-a-vis the Bulgarian nation, in case the latter does not
fulfill its duty towards its brethren of race here in an imposing fashion
which is necessary by virtue of the present ordeal for the common Bulgarian
Fatherland...

...Being in command of our people's movement, we appeal to you on behalf of
the enslaved Bulgarian to help him in the most effective way - by waging
war.We believe that the response of the people in free Bulgaria will be the
same.

... No bulgarian school is opened, neither will it be opened... Nobody
thinks of education when he is outlawed by the state because he bears the
name Bulgar...

Waiting for your patriotic intervention, we are pleased to inform you that
we have in our disposition the armed forces we have spared by now.

The Head Quarters of the Ilinden Uprising"

Damian GRUEV, Boris SARAFOV, Atanas LOZANTCHEV

This memorandum was handed to Dr.Kozhuharov, the Bulgarian consul in Bitola,
and transmitted by him to the government in Sofia with report N441 from
September 17th, 1903. "

And here:

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/document.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen1.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen2.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/documen3.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/drzhava.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/exarchy.htm

http://w3.tyenet.com/kozlich/mapovska4a.htm

http://www.bulgaria.com/VMRO/bitola06.htm

http://www.historymuseum.org/items.php3 ... ame=ochrid

[joe]

I posted Bulgarian links since your from Bulgaria. Have a read maybe you will learn something or then maybe not. btw Can you tell me what academic credentials does John Shea have? I answered you on Demosthenes. Cant erase history, all artifacts you find on Macedonia are Greek, have you been reading the international press lately? That must disgust you a great deal. Its been fun!

[joe]

The link you supplied on Peter green http://www.ucpress.edu/books/sale/pages/5597.html

My answer

"Would Siwah confirm the judgement of Gordium, and declare him (Alexander) the future lord of Asia? There was also the question of this new city he hoped to found at the
mouth of the Nile: no Greek would dream of attempting such a task without endorsement from an oracle."
Page 273.

Point of interest: "no Greek would dream of attempting such a task without endorsement from an oracle."
It is clear that for Peter Green Alexander was Greek.

Another propaganda answered.

[bg_turk]

bg_turk, all the sources that you give are propaganda websites belonging to FYROM a country made by people who are Slavs and have absolutely nothing to do with Alexander the Great, Macedonia or anything related.

No, the Republic of Macedonia is the country of those expelled from Southern Macdonia after their country as been partitioned and ethnically cleansed by the state of Greece. In 1913 Greece swallowed the biggest part - 51% of Macedonia, and populated it with Anatolian settlers from Izmir and Istanbul, even though Greek Macedonians were no more than 20% of the regions popoulation.

Even todate Greece continues to deny this horrendous crime against humanity, and insists that the oppression of the Macedonian people within its borders is a "non-existent problem", as noted in this Human Rights report:

Although ethnic Macedonians in northern Greece make up a large minority with their own language and culture, their internationally-recognized human rights and even their existence are vigorously denied by the Greek government. Free expression is restricted; several Macedonians have been prosecuted and convicted for the peaceful expression of their views. Moreover, ethnic Macedonians are discriminated against by the government's failure to permit the teaching of the Macedonian language. And ethnic Macedonians, particularly rights activists, are harassed by the government — followed and threatened by security forces — and subjected to economic and social pressures resulting from this harassment. All of these actions have led to a marked climate of fear in which a large number of ethnic Macedonians are reluctant to assert their Macedonian identity or to express their views openly. Ethnic Macedonian political refugees who fled northern Greece after the Greek Civil War of 1946-49, as well as their descendants who identify themselves as Macedonians, are denied permission to regain their citizenship, to resettle in, or even to visit northern Greece. By contrast, all of these are possible for political refugees who define themselves as Greeks. Greek courts have denied permission to establish a "Center for Macedonian Culture." Ultimately, the government is pursuing every avenue to deny the Macedonians of Greece their ethnic identity.

Source: Human Rights Watch
http://www.hrw.org/doc/?t=europe&document_limit=1700,20



The ethnic cleansing by the Greek Army against Slavic, Bulgarian and Turkish Macedonians is particularly well documented in the Carnegie report of 1913 parts of which are quoted here:

Source: Carnegie Endowment
http://www.h-net.org/~habsweb/sourcetexts/greeks1.htm

[joe]

You mentioned this link http://www.gate.net/~mango/Badian.htm
You didnt mention this from Badian

E. Badian in
Barr-Sharrar 33-51 disregards the evidence as set out
in e.g. HM 2.39-54, when it goes against his view that the
Macedonians (whom he does not define) spoke a language other
than Greek.