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Terrorists of Cyprus history

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Lala_Mustafa_Pasha » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:06 am

:lol:

I think Pirastis needs to read

From the Little Book of BIG Greek Lies

BIG Greek Lie # 1

by Risto Stefov


http://www.maknews.com/html/articles/st ... fov55.html

Why dont the Macedonians like Greeks? this man wrote 15 articles exposing lies.

Pirastis, maybe you should have a read,


Origins. The Khazars were a Turkic1 people who originated in Central Asia.

"Of all the astonishing experiences of the widely dispersed Jewish people
none was more extraordinary than that concerning the Khazars."
- Nathan Ausubel, in Pictorial History of the Jewish People (1953)

"The Khazar people were an unusual phenomenon for Medieval times. Surrounded by savage and nomadic tribes, they had all the advantages of the developed countries: structured government, vast and prosperous trading, and a permanent army. At the time, when great fanatism and deep ignorance contested their dominion over Western Europe, the Khazar state was famous for its justice and tolerance. People persecuted for their faiths flocked into Khazaria from everywhere. As a glistening star it shone brightly on the gloomy horizon of Europe, and faded away without leaving any traces of existence."
- Vasilii V. Grigoriev, in his essay "O dvoystvennosti verkhovnoy vlasti u khazarov" (1835), reprinted in his 1876 compilation book Rossiya i Aziya on page 66


"Though the Jews were everywhere a subject people, and in much of the world persecuted as well, Khazaria was the one place in the medieval world where the Jews actually were their own masters.... To the oppressed Jews of the world, the Khazars were a source of pride and hope, for their existence seemed to prove that God had not completely abandoned His people."
- Raymond Scheindlin, in The Chronicles of the Jewish People (1996)


:shock: The shock horror lol


Cities. The first Khazar capital was Balanjar, which is identified with the archaeological site Verkhneye Chir-Yurt. During the 720s, the Khazars transferred their capital to Samandar, a coastal town in the north Caucasus noted for its beautiful gardens and vineyards. In 750, the capital was moved to the city of Itil (Atil) on the edge of the Volga River. In fact, the name "Itil" also designated the Volga River in the medieval age. Itil would remain the Khazar capital for at least another 200 years. Itil, the administrative center of the Khazar kingdom, was located adjacent to Khazaran, a major trading center. In the early 10th century, Khazaran-Itil's population was composed mostly of Muslims and Jews, but a few Christians lived there also. The capital city had many mosques. The king's palace was located on an island nearby, which was surrounded by a brick wall. The Khazars stayed in their capital during the winter, but they lived in the surrounding steppe in the spring and summer to cultivate their crops.

The city of Kiev is thanks to the Civilised Turks :P Kiev is a Turkic place name (Küi = riverbank + ev = settlement).

http://www.khazaria.com/

Check this

In the capital city, the Khazars established a supreme court composed of 7 members, and every major religion (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Slavic paganism) was represented on this judicial panel. The Khazars thus sponsored religious tolerance in a time when surrounding countries persecuted those who refused to follow the faith of the rulers.

Put the Byzantiums to shame man :wink: , while Jews were being fed to the Lions, Muslims slaughtered, before adoption of Christianity, Christians had to live underground.

But in the Turks State all were equal, HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE MAN.

Image

:shock:

I can read it


At a United Nations (UN) seminar, the tolerance that Ottomans showed to people of different religions was held up as an example to be adapted even today. The Ottoman social model in which different religion and nations lived under the same roof for hundreds of years was explained by Iranian philosopher Professor Seyyid Huseyin Nasr who addressed the seminar titled "Confronting Islamophobia: Education for Tolerance and Understanding." Nasr said, "There is no 1942 in the Islamic world nor is there an Auscwitz." During World War II, nearly 15,000 Jews were killed by Nazis at Auschwitz, but Jews from Spain escaped the inquisition and were sheltered by Ottomans. They lived with Muslims in peace for years. Nasr pointed this out saying, "European Christians and Jews escaping tyranny were not treated differently in the Ottoman model. "


http://www.zaman.org/?bl=international&alt=&hn=14589

No way


The Ottomans divided Greece into six sanjaks, each ruled by a Sanjakbey accountable to the Sultan, who established his capital in Constantinople in 1453. Before this division occurred, the Ottomans implemented the millet system, which segregated peoples within the Ottoman Empire based on religion. The conquered land was parcelled out to the Sultan's followers, who held it as feudal fiefs (timars and ziamets) directly from him. The land could not be sold or inherited, but reverted to the Sultan when the fiefholder died. So long as this system applied, the Greek peasants were in some ways better off than they had been during the time of the Byzantine Empire. :shock:

The Sultan regarded the Ecumenical Patriarch (which was not abolished because of the respect and tolerance the Ottoman Sultans had towards the People of the Book) of the Greek Orthodox Church as the leader of the Greeks within his empire. The Patriarch was accountable to the Sultan for the Greeks' good behavior, and in exchange he was given wide powers over the Greek community. The Patriarch controlled the courts and the schools, as well as the Church, throughout the Greek communities of the empire. This made Orthodox priests the effective rulers of the Greek village. Some Greek towns, such as Athens and Rhodes, retained municipal self-government, while others were put under Ottoman governors. Some areas, such as the Mani Peninsula in the Peloponnese, along with the Sphakiots of Crete, and the Souliotes (or Souli) of Epirus, remained virtually independent. For their part, the Patriarchs regarded the tolerant rule of the Ottomans as preferable to rule by the Roman Catholic Venetians, who threatened the Orthodox faith in a way the Ottomans did not. When the Ottomans fought the Venetians, the Greeks mostly sided with the Ottomans. The Greek Orthodox Church helped the Greeks from all parts of Greece to preserve their ethnic, cultural, linguistic, and racial heritage; this was mainly possible because the Ottomans did not interfere in this process.


http://www.answers.com/topic/ottoman-greece

Now theres somthing they dont tell you in Greek history books


Multiculturalism

Phillip Mansel - City of the World's Desire

Multinationalism became the essence of Constantinople. A common literary device of Ottoman writers would be to compare the merits and looks of the many nationalities in the empire and its capital. In the fifteenth century national differences, based on history and geography more than race, could be acutely felt: Gennadios, first Oecumenical Patriarch under the Ottomans, called Greeks `a race than which there has been none finer on earth'. A medieval Polish proverb stated: `As long as the world is the world, the Pole will not be the German's brother.' Mustafa Ali, a prominent sixteenth-century historian, extolled as a source of strength the number of nationalities in the empire Turks, Greeks, Franks, Kurds, Serbs, Arabs, Persians, Cerkez and others. In the nineteenth century a minister of the Sultan, Cevdet Pasha, called the Ottoman Empire a great society `because its people spoke many languages and because it selected the best talents, customs and manners from among its various nations'. The variety of nationalities in Constantinople was proudly advertised in drawings, photographs and the composition of the Sultan's bodyguard; in the twentieth, in political processions and the deputation sent to depose a Sultan.


Twenty-four years after the conquest, in 1477, a census was taken by the city judge of Constantinople, for the personal information of the Sultan. There were, in Constantinople and Galata: 12,486 houses inhabited by Muslims; 1,743 houses inhabited by Greeks; 1,647 houses inhabited by Jews; 434 houses inhabited by Armenians; 384 houses inhabited by Karamanians of Armenian appearance; 332 houses inhabited by Franks (all in Galata); 267 houses inhabited by Christians from the Crimea, and 31 houses inhabited by gypsies. In all there were perhaps 80,000 inhabitants (excluding the slaves of the Gate). Constantinople was a city which defied nationalism, in whose streets Greek, Armenian, Italian, Lingua Franca, Albanian, Bulgarian and Serbian, Turkish, Persian and Arabic, were spoken.

The only multinational capital in Europe


You wanna find out about the Selcuks,

The grand cities of Konya, Alanya, thinkers like Mevlana, Bektashi, Yunus Emre

Should I go on.........................

Or are you finding this all a little hard to grasp.

I'll let this sink in, then give you lesson 2 on the Turks :roll: jeeez your racist biggotry is beyond belief.
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Postby joe » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:40 am

As any classicist would tell you the BBC's use of the issue with Alexander's participation in the Olympics is simply about ignorance on the part of the editor who wrote the question.

The Greeks almost unanimously considered Macedonians what we would call a Greek people, and the Macedonians condidered themselves fully Greeks.

The recent propaganda war netting three quotee which imply otherwise out of hundreds in ancient history addressing the subject pretty much settle the matter. The BBC using one of those three only say something about bias or abject ingorance.

Politicians and others in Greek city states were in fact very fond of claiming other Greek city states were not Greeks or were barbaric -- it is a common epithet.

This is like someone in 2,000 years pulling a quote from a current US conservative stating that: "San Francisco is harldy America" and taking it to mean something it doesn't.

And why would anyone want to buy Risto Stefov book? Admit it guys, you atca guys hate anything Greek so once someone disagrees with anything Greek, your right there to back them up. What a joke.
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Postby Lala_Mustafa_Pasha » Thu Feb 16, 2006 4:59 am

Joe, common your just given subjective points of you,

You talk about Greek hatred? where is this, I'm not the one saying Greeks dont exist and are savage, animalistic sub-humans now am I, take a look in your own camp before pointing fingers, dont throught stones if you've got a glass house my friend.

Right now its

Joe vs the BBC, whose more credible :roll:

Also, Macedonians ruled the Hellenic City States, so wouldnt those states be Macedonian and happy to be Macedonian?
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Postby bg_turk » Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:30 am

joe wrote:As any classicist would tell you the BBC's use of the issue with Alexander's participation in the Olympics is simply about ignorance on the part of the editor who wrote the question.


Just today I talked to a classicisit about the issue.

Ethnically Macedonians were a distinct group very much like the Thracians and the Illirians, there is not much doubt about it. Macedonians were not Hellenes like the Spartans or the Athenians.

Nevertheless their leaders adopted Hellenism because they thought of it as a superior culture (some say Alexander had an inferiority complex because he was a barbarian), and they spread the Greek culture throught Asia.

Because they were not ethnically greek, but adopted the greek culture classicists prefer to call them a Hellenistic tribe, not a Hellene tribe. Please note that Thracians were also a Hellenistic tribe, they used the greek alphabet to write, and had many gods that were in common with the greeks.

In summary there is not justification to say that Alexander was a Greek, he was a Macedonian, ethnically distinct from the Greeks.

Mostmortum, because Greeks were jealous of his achievements, they started refering to him as a Greek.
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Postby bg_turk » Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:35 am

joe wrote:Politicians and others in Greek city states were in fact very fond of claiming other Greek city states were not Greeks or were barbaric -- it is a common epithet.


Can you give an example? I am pretty sure there is not a single ancient text in whch one greek refers to another as a barbarian.
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Postby bg_turk » Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:41 am

Piratis wrote:
Shining examples of Greek civility:

Nobody said that Greeks were perfect. The difference is that Turks did very little other than killing, raping and stealing the land of others, while in the case of Greeks these were only a small part of their history and not what made them great. Have you seen any Greek being proud for such acts? On the other hand the Turks, having nothing else to be proud about, they are proud of butchering others and building an empire by enslaving foreign lands. Even worst they continue with the same practices today in the 21st century.

Greeks are renowned for philosophy, arts, sciences etc, while Turks are renowned for being great butchers. If Turks didn't kill and steal to build an empire what they would be known for?

Piratis, cut all these one sided statements. Of course greeks killed, raped and stole mercilessly. You ethnically cleansed the whole of Macedonia from the Slavic Macedonians that lives there, and stole 51% of their land. There are plent of ethnic maps from 1911 which I will not bother to show again, look at one of them and you will see that once slavs were a majority in Macedonia, i.e. before Greece invaded it.

Greece is the only country which has quadrupled its territories continously throughtout its history from independence till now, and you are talking about other "stealing" your land.

Since you are so proud of your civility, tell us what did Greece give the world in the last 1000 years?
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Postby joe » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:38 am

Yea, i can but that wouldnt change your mind there bg turk now would it.
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Postby joe » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:41 am

Pasha, was there a question there or was that your usual rambling? Who started the thread? Did you not expect some others to retaliate? Its just going to go back and forth like this. The moderates will soon leave and only fanatics will post here and it may even spread to your atca board. For me, i found a better forum.
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Postby joe » Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:53 am

"Just today I talked to a classicisit about the issue."--bg turk

What a joke.
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Postby joe » Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:28 am

US House of Representatives took up this issue on the misinformation a couple of weeks back. Check it out.

40 US Representatives urge FYROM to compromise on name dispute
22 December, 2005

Forty (40) members of the US House of Representatives signed a letter on Thursday, co-authored by Florida Representative Mike Bilirakis and New York Representative Carolyn Maloney, urging the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) to reach a compromise with Greece over the name dispute.
In their letter, Bilirakis and Maloney call on the FYROM government to stop its negative nationalistic propaganda and to work with the UN and Greece towards finding a mutually-acceptable solution.
Furthermore, the representatives also call on FYROM to re-examine the content of books, maps and school books and ensure their accuracy.

Following is the full text of the letter and the names of the Representatives who signed.

109th CONGRESS 1st Session H. Res. 521
Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) should cease its distribution of negative and nationalist propaganda and should work with the United Nations and Greece to find a mutually acceptable official name for the FYROM.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES October 27, 2005 , Mrs. MALONEY (for herself and Mr. BILIRAKIS) submitted the following resolution; which was referred to the Committee on International Relations

RESOLUTION

Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) should cease its distribution of negative and nationalist propaganda and should work with the United Nations and Greece to find a mutually acceptable official name for the FYROM.
Whereas on April 8, 1993, the United Nations General Assembly admitted as a member the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), not as the `Republic of Macedonia', but as the `Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia';
Whereas United Nations Security Council Resolution 817 (1993) states that the dispute over the name must be resolved to maintain peaceful relations between Greece and the FYROM;
Whereas on September 13, 1995, Greece and the FYROM signed a United Nations brokered Interim Accord;
Whereas since its admittance to the United Nations in 1993, the FYROM has allowed the publishing of negative and nationalist propaganda, including in school textbooks;
Whereas students are being taught that parts of Greece, including Greek Macedonia, belong to the FYROM;
Whereas some textbooks and maps show that a `Greater Macedonia' extends south to Mount Olympus in Greece and east to Mount Pirin in Bulgaria; and
Whereas this misinformation instills hostility in portions of the population of the FYROM toward Greece: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved, That the House of Representatives—

(1) urges the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) to observe its obligations under Article 7 of the 1995 United Nations brokered Interim Accord and take steps to halt the proliferation of negative propaganda toward Greece and review the contents of textbooks, maps, and teaching aids to ensure that such tools are stating accurate information; and

(2) urges the FYROM to work within the framework of the United Nations process to reach a mutually acceptable permanent name.


Cosponsors of H. Res. 521 [As of 12/20/05]
1. Rep. Rob Andrews (D-NJ)
2. Rep. Shelley Berkley (D-NV)
3. Rep. Mike Bilirakis (R-FL)
4. Rep. Tim Bishop (D-NY)
5. Rep. Sherrod Brown (D-OH)
6. Rep. William Lacy Clay (D-MO)
7. Rep. Joe Crowley (D-NY)
8. Rep. Mike Doyle (D-PA)
9. Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA)
10. Rep. Rodney Frelinghuysen (D-MA)
11. Rep. Maurice Hinchey (D-NY)
12. Rep. Rush Holt (D-NJ)
13. Rep. Steve Israel (D-NY)
14. Rep. Jesse Jackson (D-IL)
15. Rep. Patrick Kennedy (D-RI)
16. Rep. James Langevin (D-RI)
17. Rep. Barbara Lee (D-CA)
18. Rep. Sander Levin (D-MI)
19. Rep. Nita Lowey (D-NY)
20. Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY)
21. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-MO)
22. Rep. James McGovern (D-MA)
23. Rep. Michael McNulty (D-NY)
24. Rep. Marty Meehan (D-MA)
25. Rep. Bob Menendez (D-NJ)
26. Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY)
27. Rep. Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-DC)
28. Rep. Frank Pallone (D-NJ)
29. Rep. Donald Payne (D-NJ)
30. Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-FL)
31. Rep. Steve Rothman (D-NJ)
32. Rep. Christopher Shays (R-CT)
33. Rep. Brad Sherman (D-CA)
34. Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA)
35. Rep. Hilda Solis (D-CA)
36. Rep. John Tierney (D-MA)
37. Rep. Edolphus Towns (D-NY)
38. Rep. Chris Van Hollen (D-MD)
39. Rep. Diane Watson (D-CA)
40. Rep. Curt Weldon (R-PA)
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