Cyprus-Forum.com

[Maximus]

I have not read his book, and I dont care to read it Bordo

I have read enough about the Cyprus problem already to understand what happened and the motives that have lead to the present day impasses in the negotiations between the two sides.

Ersin Tatar, the "president" elect of the occupation regime and leader of the Turkish community on the island says that you are all part of the Turkish race. There is nothing wrong with his statements, it makes sense and also helps us understand why the Turkish minority on the island would rather have enosis with Turkey than be part of a Greek Cypriot majority independent state.

its all so problematic because of the incompatibilities created for the majority Greek Cypriots on the island through colonialism.

Today, the Cyprus problem is one of illegal occupation, usurpation of peoples rights and theft.

[Lordo]

Now that is truly remarkable.

Russia has always said the solution must be Cypriot and there must be no suffocating timescales with the talks, which Papadopoullos used to good effect to kill the solution.

During the 2004 Plan, the withdrawal of troops were factored in whereby by 2019 all the Turkish troops except what was agreed in 1960 would have left. The Guarantees were left to some time later. The official position did not change until Kotzias back in October 2016 decided to publish the "Kotzias Security Doctrine". about Cyprus. SO much for solution by the Cypriots. At this point there were talks of a 5 way meeting where all the chapters would be negotiated at the same time. And unbelievably Turkey did agree to discuss the abolition of the Guarantees. Anastasiades asked Akinci to agree on the land proportions and the returning refugees agreed in the Annan Plan before hand and Akinci trusting and thinking Anastasiades needed help obliged. But when the Kotzias Security Doctrine was published, he added condition to the 5 way talks which was the Guarantees would be abolished before the 5-way meeting. So it seems between Kotzias and Lavrof, they came up with a plan to stop the talks. They were helped by Nicos Christodoulides and his wife Philipa Karseras who did everything they could to undermine and pressure Anastasiades to stop the talks. Anastasiades had intentions to finish the talks in 2017. It was during the Mont Pelerin talks when Anastsiades claimed the Andros Kyprianou had asked him to take a week off and come back for discussions. In fact there was no such call, he came back and went to Greece to meet Kotzias. When he came back his point of view of the talks began to change. Before he came back, he did have a meeting with the other party leaders but he did not agree with their demands to stop the talks. In the meantime Kotzias from this point had no intention to hold the 5 way meeting unless the guarantees were abolished. Up to this point Anastasiades never publicly mentioned about abolishing Guarantees before even the 5-way talks started.

So it seams for those who are expecting in some way for the talks to begin with any meaning, I am afraid you will be disappointed. The very man who managed to pressure Anastasiades is now in power. Lavrof is still in power and it makes no difference who is in power in Greece the policy regarding Cyprus does not change there. There may well be talks but nor any intention of a solution, it will be so they could claim there are talks so as we were ......

What a shame.

Indeed that gives a new meaning can you trust the Greeks?

[Maximus]

Ade re bordo,

You trying to divert attention away from the fact that your leaders unilaterally declared an independent state decades ago. The objective was always to create a;

"TURKISH republic of Cyprus"

[repulsewarrior]

...frankly, i don't care for what either "Greeks" or "Turks" say, I care for the trees on the land my family has taken care of hundreds of years.

...i care for my village, that together through our collective efforts we sustain(ed) ourselves; (what made our village different to the others, that "They" should call it "mixed")?

...i care for myself, that as a Human being i will return to/from where i came from welcomed and lovingly.

I remember, as a young boy being bullied: it mattered all the more to them that i was Greek, as "Greeks" that i would join in their thinking; but i did not.

...indeed i abhor the "Turks" just as much because they are no different, living Hatefully toward their ''own'' end.

...and it offends me to see Cypriots blame each other (as though they represent a "side"); the Problem (bigger than our problem) is still unanswered while "This" which must stop remains.

"Be" Cypriot. Reject the narrative "They" feed to 'us', the other half so to speak who value Principles much higher, those not "Them" (Lest we Forget).

...quit doddling with your mantras; look forward with your ways, choose: are you Cypriot?

Free, i want to be Free. I want to be respected and trusted for who i am as an Individual; most of all.

...ENOSIS, when 'we' end up writing it on walls it will be the end of both of ''Them''; having given it its Cypriot meaning.

[Lordo]

RW the fact is America as much as for their one interests want a peace settlement in Cyprus and the Russians are exact opposite. The do not want peace for the same reason as the Americas, for their own interests.

It is also a fact that Russia has the ability to influence both Greek and Cypriot politicians to stop the solution.

If you cannot see that, then you are not paying attention. Drousiotis was in the best place to know what was going on.

GC Establishment moved from
1. No suffocating time frames,
2. No outside influence - this must be Cypriot Solution.
3. No pre-conditions

To
The Russian idea finally published by Kotzias in his doctrine that Greece will not attend the 5 way conference to complete the solution unless Turkey first agrees to abolish the Guarantees and remove the TA.

So what happened to the idea that this was going to be a Cypriot solution with no interference and that there would be no pre-conditions.

Up to the point I have read, Anastasiades refused to abide by the narrative. Only the small parties followed the Moscow=Greece narrative. I look forward to the day when Anastasiades actually moves his position to demand that the TA and the Guarantee must go on the first day of the solution which was the final demand that killed the talks in 2017 Summer. As this was unacceptable.

Forget freedom, we shall never have it, in this nasty old world big fish eat the little fish. Nothing will change as it suits the big boys.

I love this idea the idiots are now repeating that this is an invasion and occupation issue first started by Russia followed by the Greeks. No shit man, 63 to 74 never happened. Just as well some us are still alive to remind the Swine how wrong they are.

Ironically back in 2017 Turkey was ready to talk about Guarantees and TA presence in Cyprus but that did not satisfy the Russians. They wanted the talks to stop not to reach a conclusion.

More to come about the cowardice the Anastasiades showed in the talks with the help of the Russians, Nikos Christodoulides, Kozias and the media too.

[repulsewarrior]

...as i have suggested, the People may speak for themselves.

You are too pessimistic perhaps, 'we' are not helpless nor are we few.

"Them", paint them any colour you like it makes no difference; 'we' must demonstrate our existence, so much so that 'we' cannot be ignored.

[Lordo]

I do not have the precise date in front of me but there was a conference back in 2016 organised by all the small parties and the Russian Ambassador attended it. HAs there been any other country where a political party or a group of them hold a conference and another country's ambassador is invited and speak to them.

The phrases

No suffocating time frames
no pre-conditions
Guarantees are anachronistic
Cypriot solution with no outside influence

All came from Russian publications and adopted by the Cypriot media.

Does anybody remember back in 2004 before the vote, the Cypriot Foreign Minister going to Russia and then France to get them to block the resolution to have a vote in 2004. Of course not passing the resolution did not stop the vote but thats another matter.

[Lordo]

...as i have suggested, the People may speak for themselves.

You are too pessimistic perhaps, 'we' are not helpless nor are we few.

"Them", paint them any colour you like it makes no difference; 'we' must demonstrate our existence, so much so that 'we' cannot be ignored.

We do not live in an ideal world RW. People do not speak for themselves. Decisions are made depending on who's interest a country is serving. We have three choices, America, Russia and China. These are the top dogs and everybody is subserviently to them.

Welcome to the real world of today.

There was a Canadian talking on the radio the other day and he explained that Canada has no sovereignty, it makes no difference who you vote for, you cannot make a decision against the interest of the Americans. Mexico is in the same boat.

[Lordo]

o it seems it was February 2017 when Disy decided not to vote and the small parties managed to get the vote on Enosis through parliament and Anastasiades also decided rubber stamp it is when al pretense of wanting solution ended.

Up to this point Anastasiades pretended he did not want to meet Kotzias or listen to the small parties at the national council meetings instructed Christodoulides to contac Kotzias to tell him to be prepared to come to the meetings and they were singing from the same page.

In a meeting between Akinci and Eide, Akinci complained that passing the law on Enosis was in bad faith and Anastasiades lost his temper, shouted out that Nobody can tell the GCs what to think, he then went on a tirade of how TCs were celebrating July 20 th as a peace day when it was war, banged on the table, he then went off. Clearly he ignored the speech Akinci's speech as soon as he got elected saying July 20th was war not peace. Anastasiades did not come back to the meeting so after waiting for a while they both left.

So it was at this point Anastasiades started demanding the withdrawal of Guarantees and Troops from day one, knowing full well that it would not be acceptable. Naturally repeating all the mantra about anachronistic guarantees and TA and all that.

But in reality all that was achieved was the Guarantees and the TA remain in Cyprus. And naturally Russia got what they wanted. Greece and Turkey are tense and Erdogan actually pulled of buying Russian missiles as well as depending on Russia for energy.

On another note, it seems no western Energy company was interested in extraction gas for Cyprus unless Turkey was involved as most of it would end up in the Turkish market.

So back to square one. Who won? Russia.

If you take this to it's logical conclusion, the only way Russia will allow peace in Cyprus is if Turkey leaves Nato and joins Russia in some form of pact or other.

[Lordo]

Now this is when it gets really interesting.

Back in the Talat/Christofias days Talat wanted to list the convergence so it can be published to help Talat win the election but it was not who Christofias wanted to win. He wanted Eroglu to win to solve his problem of having to negotiate.

Go on to 2017 and in Crans Montana, Turkish Foreign Minister agreed to put the Guarantees and the removing of the TA from Cyprus on the agenda for the Prime Ministers to make decision in a few days later. Anastasiades had no intention of negotiating so he insisted that it was handed in in writing. He was in cahoots with Kotzias to insist they had the acceptance in writing before before the Prime Ministers joined the talks. Tsipras was stupid enough to send Kotzias to the talks despite the fact that he knew Kotzias had no intention to call in Prime Minitsers.

Interestingly it is the response Anastasides said to Tsipras in a conversation about who should be negotiating. He told him to deal with his village and leave his own village alone. Hence the talks were closed down.