Cyprus-Forum.com

by **metecyp** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:27 pm

And wouldn't it be a great gesture if that abomination of a flag on Pendadactylos was removed? Lets get real here. The RoC is slowly giving space to the TC's to interact with their brothers in the south. Your regime though is so spiteful it refuses to accept any leway until we capitulate on everything just so that we can accomodate the TC's at the expense of everyone else.

You're doing the same thing again, comparing legality with illegality. Yes it would be nice for that flag on Pendadactylos to be removed and I'm sure it will once there's a solution. But the regime in the north has no obligation to remove it. The regime in the north has no responsibility towards the GC but the RC has every obligation to remain legal because it's supposed to represent the whole island, can't you see the difference?

If we were that spiteful towards you then I would have expected that flag to be replaced with something more 'hellenic'. But it hasn't. So what does that tell you?

It hasn't changed because it was an agreed flag so changing it to something more hellenic would not help for the claim that RC is bicommunal. And I guess the national anthem was not agreed since there was not enough time to agree on one, and since there wasn't an agreed anthem GCs took the liberty to use the Greek national anthem.

The important thing is the mentality here. If I truly believed that most of GC community believed in the RC as it was supposed to be, and they are ready to embrace TCs in the RC, I wouldn't come and complain here.

by **-mikkie2-** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:57 pm

Yes it would be nice for that flag on Pendadactylos to be removed and I'm sure it will once there's a solution. But the regime in the north has no obligation to remove it.

So, the regime in the north has no obligation to do anything for the TC's? The TC's don't seem to want to stand up against their 'regime' in the north? They expect others to do that for them?

If you guys are genuinely not happy with your regime then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. This is not a matter of trust between the GC's and TC's. It is a matter of whether the TC's see their future as part of a Turkish state or as part of a Cypriot state that is under OUR (meaning both) collective control.

What the TC's need to do is to CHALLENGE the RoC using legal means, not hiding behind the Turks and the regime in the north. I commend the TC's in the south who are using the legal organs of the RoC to uphold their rights. That is what the TC's should be doing. The only problem with that is that their leaders don't want them to do that because it undermines their 'state' and gives recognition to the RoC.

The argument in my view is quite simple, whereas I think you are clouding the issue by always putting the onus on the GC's to do something, when in fact in most cases, it is the TC's that should be getting off their back sides and doing something about it. The TC's need to wake up because as every day goes by they are being undermined. Pretty soon northern Cyprus will be a region of Turkey. In the absence of a solution any time soon, the only way for TC's to remain in Cyprus and to have a say in Cyprus is to exercise their rights within the RoC.

by **metecyp** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:40 pm

So, the regime in the north has no obligation to do anything for the TC's? The TC's don't seem to want to stand up against their 'regime' in the north? They expect others to do that for them?

I said the regime in the north has no obligation to do anything for the GCs, I don't know how you deduced that I meant the regime has no obligation to do anything for TCs. I understand that the flag on Pendadactylos symbolizes occupation for you but it doesn't necessarily have the exact same meaning for every TC.

And for your information, TCs did a lot in the last 4-5 years to change things in the north. If it wasn't up to 80.000 TCs demonstrating, we wouldn't have borders opened. But TCs can only do so much, they never received any type of positive response from the south and it takes 2 to tango.

What you're expecting is TCs to accept the blame for all of the mistakes of the past.

It is a matter of whether the TC's see their future as part of a Turkish state or as part of a Cypriot state that is under OUR (meaning both) collective control.

I think TCs answered that question already with their 65% Yes vote. I know the referandum was about the Annan plan and according to some of the members, it's worse than the partition and blah blah but the fact of the matter is that TCs expressed their desire for a federal, united Cyprus over and over.

The argument in my view is quite simple, whereas I think you are clouding the issue by always putting the onus on the GC's to do something, when in fact in most cases, it is the TC's that should be getting off their back sides and doing something about it.

I ask GCs to do something because TCs came a long way. TCs changed their position from a seperate independent state of their own to a federal united Cyprus. They expressed their will numerous times with huge demonstrations and we're yet to see a response to those from the south. There are GCs still questioning TC rights in the RC and having no problem with the Greek national anthem! The least GCs can do is at least mean what you say, show the desire to make the RC truly bicommunal. The argument is indeed quite simple.

The TC's need to wake up because as every day goes by they are being undermined. Pretty soon northern Cyprus will be a region of Turkey. In the absence of a solution any time soon, the only way for TC's to remain in Cyprus and to have a say in Cyprus is to exercise their rights within the RoC.

GCs need to wake up too. A nonsolution affects both of the communities not just TCs. The north is being sold to foreigners and that will impact everyone on the island. Time is not on our side.

by **-mikkie2-** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:32 am

GCs need to wake up too. A nonsolution affects both of the communities not just TCs. The north is being sold to foreigners and that will impact everyone on the island. Time is not on our side.

We have woken up and we do not want domination by the Turks.

I do not disagree that the TC's have collectively done things to change the situation to some extent in the north but it is not enough. Voting 'Yes' to the Annan plan for us would have meant many negative things, which mainly centred on the fact that Turkey would have ENHANCED rights in Cyprus and the turning of a large propoportion of greek cypriots into second class citizens and in the long run, saying yes would have meant the beginning of the end of greek cypriots in Cyprus.

At least with the way things are we, even if the island is divided, we shall be masters of our own destiny, rather being slaves to whatever might befall us in the future.

As a community, time is actually running out for the TC's because it is they that are being undermined. How many more TC's will leave northern Cyprus before people realise that there won't be a TC community left to do anything.

I am sorry if I come accross a bit agressive. But I really want a united Cyprus for all but the path we are heading down will not achieve that. Standing up for our rights, both GC and TC, is the only way to achieve it.

by **MicAtCyp** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 8:49 pm

Michalis4354 wrote: Vasiliou has never been declared as one of the traitors. He took a different approach at the last referendums some have criticised him , but this issue has been over.

Correct. Vassiliou advocated yes to the referendum and all he received was criticism. Anastasiades did something more.Revenge against his own countrymen for voting OXI. That's why he was called traitor. And he is one.

by **insan** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:08 pm

Correct. Vassiliou advocated yes to the referendum and all he received was criticism. Anastasiades did something more.Revenge against his own countrymen for voting OXI. That's why he was called traitor. And he is one.

so what's the penalty of being a traitor in South aka RoC, re birader?