Londonrake wrote:Kikapu wrote:I’m sorry LR, but when some fucker puts a gun to my head and demands my wallet or my life, I am happy to lose that battle and hand over my wallet and have the chance to go after him at another time. There’s no point losing my life and my wallet because that is what is likely to happen if I refused his demands. The guilty is the fucker with the gun, but he is also the fucker with the power at that time. No point in becoming a dead hero just to be right and stand my ground on principle.
Having taken virtually all of Europe (Poland, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg and France) in a matter of a few weeks I suppose you could have said Hitler had a big gun at the UK's head in May 1940. Britain was offered very good terms for conceding a bloodless surrender. Cancellation of the planned German invasion being the first. People often don't surrender though. They fight. Using your logic the N Vietnamese should obviously have surrendered in 1969, when there were over half a million US troops there with overwhelming superiority in virtually every area. Moreover, the Ukranians are not going to have the chance to "go after" Russia another time.
The gun to their head hasn't turned out to be quite as effective as was originally thought either, has it? One reassuring thing to come out of this is the Russian army's quite poor performance. They clearly don't know how to do combined ops, for instance. Putin seems to be sacking Generals left, right and centre, with the top FSB honcho who had the responsibility for assessing the Ukrainian armed forces capabilities locked up.
Have to say - and after all these years of forums I should know better of course - I find it incredible (I appreciate it's getting repetitive) that when Russia sends its army across a neighbour's border, sets about killing large numbers of the population and destroying their cities not only is there virtually nothing to condemn that on this forum, people actually rush in to support and justify it. One clearly a headcase member beside himself with jubilation, enjoying the whole spectacle.
Not only that, but the carnage being wrought is apparently all the Ukrainian leadership's fault (not Russia's at all) because they've refused to surrender. That's inmates running the asylum logic
LR, you are barking up the wrong tree my friend, or better yet, you are comparing lemons and oranges. There is no need for you to revisit WWII, Vietnam or Afghanistan to make your point to counter my argument which was, had Zelenskyy accepted for Ukraine to remain neutral we may not even have a war at the moment. To me, that would have constituted as losing the battle, that’s all. From there his country would have been victorious which is million miles from where it is today. There would not be a war to lose. Your references to the wars detailed above are after the fact of wars being fought for few weeks to few years for the defending countries should not surrender. I am not advocating for Ukraine to surrender now because they will lose no matter what as it is too late. The time for Zelenskyy to have been smart was before the war started. That moment has come and gone and the Ukrainians and Ukraine will pay the price for Zelensky portraying himself as David vs. Goliath from biblical times to present, which he is not going to defeat Russia with a slingshot or with anything else.