by Londonrake » Sat Oct 28, 2023 9:51 pm
Londonrake: March 2014. Russian troops move into Crimea and annex it. This is met with much popular acclaim in Russia. The West largely ignore it.
Robin Hood replied: In your version maybe but in the real world: There were 18.000 Russian military personnel in Crimea in 2014 out of the 25.000 allowed for in the Treaty made with the elected Government of Ukraine ...... so they did not ‘move in’ (invade?) they were already there and legally !
LR:That's absurd. Crimea was part of Ukraine.
As advised before ........Crimea was an autonomous self governing region of Ukraine. After being threatened by the US installed anti Russian Government of Yatzenuk in Kyiv, the Crimean government decided on a referendum for independence from Ukraine. An 80%+ turnout voted over 95% to succeed from Ukraine. The Russians then left their barracks and occupied most of the military installations, including airfields, to prevent reinforcement of the Ukraine forces from slaughtering protestors (It worked very well!)
As I have already tried to explain to you ...... Kyiv upped the threat level and mobilised! So the Crimean government had another referendum to join the Russian Federation of States. By a vast majority, again 95%+, THE CRIMEAN PEOPLE en mass voted for the proposal. They applied the UN Right to Self Determination.
UN Right to Self Determination:
“The right of a people to self-determination is a cardinal principle in modern international law, binding, as such, on the United Nations as authoritative interpretation of the Charter's norms. It states that peoples, based on respect for the principle of equal rights and fair equality of opportunity, have the right to freely choose their sovereignty and international political status with no interference. The concept was first expressed in the 1860s, and spread rapidly thereafter. During and after World War I, the principle was encouraged by both Soviet Premier Vladimir Lenin and United States President Woodrow Wilson. Having announced his Fourteen Points on 8 January 1918, on 11 February 1918 Wilson stated: "National aspirations must be respected; people may now be dominated and governed only by their own consent. 'Self determination' is not a mere phrase; it is an imperative principle of action."
In Feb 2014 Russia invaded and seized it, declaring it part of the Motherland.
No they didn’t you are lying again! The people of Crimea made that decision, not Putin, the Duma approved their application and as a member of a sort of Russian ‘NATO’, an attack on Crimea would be taken as an attack on Russia. Ukraine heeded the advice1
Are you arguing that Ukraine donated it? Or, that the presence of Russian forces, as part of a mutual agreement, meant it was OK to seize the Crimea?
Not at all as you are well aware but the old obfuscation kicks in when you are cornered!
If you have a problem you can easily "research" it, and you will find that both Putin and Shoigu later admitted that the "little green men" were sent in to seize the place.
I think you will find they went in to help
SECURE the peninsular as per the wishes of the people, I suggest you read YOUR link again ........ the link says nothing of the sort! Another lie?
I know how you love links. Although, whilst you expect others to accept them, from any of your "independent" sites you invariably reject them when they disagree with your views:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_o ... remists%22.
So you chose the “
Russian Occupation of Crimea to do your research”?
Were your ridiculous interpretation true then it would surely be the case that if British troops were to pour out of the SBAs and seize Cyprus it couldn't of course be an invasion. They were already there.
More obfuscation to divert the discussion! How about ......If an extreme right wing government in Nicosia brought into power by Russia were to threaten let’s say Episkopi SBA ....... the British Forces would just pack their bags and leave ...... just because this new Russian backed government decided Episkopi SBA was part of Cyprus? Yeah ..... of course they would!
Robin Hood wrote: A US instigated coup in Kyiv in 2014 prior to Crimea’s ‘annexation’, put an extremist right wing anti-Russian, US selected government in power in Kyiv. Within 24 hours Yatsenyuk (The US’s chosen man) threatened both the Crimean’s and the Russian’s. Crimea being an independent autonomous self governing region had a referendum where 97% of the population voted to leave the Ukraine and become independent. Russian troops locked down the Ukraine military ..... they even let them keep their weapons, and transported those that wanted to return back to Ukraine. Apparently very few took up the offer and decided to stay in Crimea or go on to join the Russian Forces.
LR: That's not what happened. Putin's annexation of Crimea was met with much acclaim from the Russian people. Why not, it was bloodless, costless and as such proved popular. Well, much like the Anschluss.
Your talk of a US inspired "coup" earlier in Ukraine is BS.
Here are just 3 videos of that ‘
bullshit’!
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV9J6sxCs5khttps://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-ukraine-tape-idUSBREA1601G20140207LR: Knowing how the people of Poland and Romania were prospering in the EU the Ukrainian people and its parliament voted overwhelmingly for a political association and free trade agreement. Yanyukovich nevertheless made the unilateral decision to ignore it in favour of a closer relationship with Russia.
At the last minute as I understand it, the EU added a clause that required Ukraine to cease trading with the Russian Federation! As those that voted him into power were mostly from the Southern and Eastern Oblasts where over 66% of Ukraine’s GDP was generated .... and most of it by trade with Russia, HE/they rejected the EU’s terms! Wouldn’t you in their place?
So the minority in the North decided with the backing of the US decided to put these people in their place
AND THAT STARTED THE EIGHT YEAR CIVIL WAR![quote] LR: The man was basically just another brown envelope Lukashenko, living in palatial splendour. He got ousted. Seeing how things were heading - and with an eye to Sevastopol (which is what it was all really about) - provoked the Russian move on Crimea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_DignityRobin Hood wrote: Why do you always have to tell lies?
You have a perspective problem. If you're confused it's on "RH Problems" - page 2.
A short while ago I posted a list of the slurs you'd used responding to me in quite a short while. You know "drunk/liar ...................etc" . You seem to have this victimhood issue. You can't see just how much offense you yourself dish out. Not just the adjectives but, more importantly actually, the tone. I would urge you to curb it. I don't know what else I can say. I can keep you awake at night. It isn't reciprocal.
More threats? Just like you have done several times before on different forums? What ‘
gang’ of likewise morons are you putting together now to ‘
work me over’ as you threatened before? (
WE know where you live .... you know what I mean .... was the veiled threat!) Or maybe taking all the copies of posts I make that offend your sensitivities, to your Lawyer. I said I could stop you in your tracks ..... and legally! So you ran sobbing to the site owner that I was bullying you. Ah .... didums!
)
