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Ukrainian Issue

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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Pyrpolizer » Fri Jul 21, 2023 10:50 pm

Lordo wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Lordo wrote:Has there been any news about the Ukrainians dropping cluster bombs?

https://southfront.org/first-videos-sho ... an-forces/

If they have been using them all along and it has not stopped the advanced surely it will not make any difference now either. Talk of bashing your head against the wall and all that.


I agree. Just to clear up the false narrative that these are some kind of wonder weapons. They are not!
They just kill many civilians after the war ends.
And they are only good for a defender in case the offender attacks with too many concentrated equipment and troops. Presumably the Ukrs are on the offensive now....
It seems they have no other choice, because they run out of normal ammunition. 8)
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Lordo » Sat Jul 22, 2023 12:19 am

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Lordo wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Lordo wrote:Has there been any news about the Ukrainians dropping cluster bombs?

https://southfront.org/first-videos-sho ... an-forces/

If they have been using them all along and it has not stopped the advanced surely it will not make any difference now either. Talk of bashing your head against the wall and all that.


I agree. Just to clear up the false narrative that these are some kind of wonder weapons. They are not!
They just kill many civilians after the war ends.
And they are only good for a defender in case the offender attacks with too many concentrated equipment and troops. Presumably the Ukrs are on the offensive now....
It seems they have no other choice, because they run out of normal ammunition. 8)

But they are attacking to break through the lines of defence. Considering how ditches are constructed zig zagging all over the place, they can hardly do that much damage to the soldiers in the trenches. I suspect they are equally useless against tanks too. What are the odds they will actually land in a trench? If they land on top, they are useless. The only use I see is if there is an army on the move with soldiers scattered all over the place in an open space.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Kikapu » Sat Jul 22, 2023 5:58 am

Lordo wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Lordo wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Lordo wrote:Has there been any news about the Ukrainians dropping cluster bombs?

https://southfront.org/first-videos-sho ... an-forces/

If they have been using them all along and it has not stopped the advanced surely it will not make any difference now either. Talk of bashing your head against the wall and all that.


I agree. Just to clear up the false narrative that these are some kind of wonder weapons. They are not!
They just kill many civilians after the war ends.
And they are only good for a defender in case the offender attacks with too many concentrated equipment and troops. Presumably the Ukrs are on the offensive now....
It seems they have no other choice, because they run out of normal ammunition. 8)

But they are attacking to break through the lines of defence. Considering how ditches are constructed zig zagging all over the place, they can hardly do that much damage to the soldiers in the trenches. I suspect they are equally useless against tanks too. What are the odds they will actually land in a trench? If they land on top, they are useless. The only use I see is if there is an army on the move with soldiers scattered all over the place in an open space.


It seems to me that, for the attacking Ukrainian army when using these cluster bombs, it may help set off some of the mines planted by the Russians between them and the Russian defensive lines, but not all the mines. The Russians can lay more mines by using their remote mine lying systems in minutes and the Ukrainians are back to square one, except, the matter is worse now for Ukrainians, because they now also have unexplored cluster bomb ordinances that they have laid themselves to get through in order to reach the Russian defensive lines, which they haven’t been able to, even after almost two months of trying.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby repulsewarrior » Sat Jul 22, 2023 6:14 am

...mines are horrible, and there are Conventions against them; i remind you/''you''.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Lordo » Sat Jul 22, 2023 1:14 pm

repulsewarrior wrote:...mines are horrible, and there are Conventions against them; i remind you/''you''.

And yet no country has ever been brought to book for producing, selling or using them. The same applies to cluster bombs.

When ever I travel in Cyprus, there used to be a field on to my left with a sign saying "Mines". It has been removed now after some 35 years later.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Londonrake » Sat Jul 22, 2023 3:45 pm

Kikapu wrote:What can I say, other than to say that, “the devil is always in the details” for me!

When the claim is made that 2 Russian Battalions are destroyed, I expect to see 200+ dead bodies in the vicinity of the destroyed equipment, that’s all.

As for the rest of your post, we are going in circles. It’s no point beating a dead horse! However, allow me to make one point on the expansion of NATO which you seem to put a lot of importance with the expansion with Sweden and Finland, and that is, there never be a ground war between NATO and Russia because NATO do not have the courage to have a ground war directly with Russia, hence the reason of the proxy war taking place in Ukraine between NATO and Russia, because NATO countries won’t be able to stand when the body bags of their loved ones return home in the thousands. The next alternative to a ground war, it will be Nuclear to which we will ALL lose. So, please tell me again what is the good news on adding Sweden and Finland to the NATO club?


Pages! :D

Yes - you have several times played the "broken record" or, as here, "Going in circles" card but......................... that's not really the case.

It's not so much I put a lot of importance upon NATO expansion, it's that it was a core Putin principle for his invasion of Ukraine. To stop it. Come on, failed - surely?

"NATO do not have the courage to have a ground war directly with Russia"? What does that mean exactly? NATO is of course a conglomeration of 31 countries. Soon to be 33 it seems. Whilst there are certain factors which involve all - certainly those applicable to Article 5 - nothing has ever stopped individuals, or groups, from pursuing an agenda, which quite often others disagree with. Which seems to me on the whole what's happening in Ukraine.

I wouldn't want to get into a "My Dad is bigger than your Dad" argument but - honestly - given what's happened in the past 18 months in Ukraine do you really think that Vladimir Putin is looking to take on NATO? Please - look at the math.

It isn't so much "good news" about Sweden and Finland but their joining NATO is certainly bad news for Russia.

Personal experience in here is usually treated with contempt. Trumped by Google "research" . Experts. Nevertheless, I spent some time working with the Swedish air force. Albeit quite a while ago. They are a very impressive organisation. Sweden doesn't have a global role or a nuclear option to worry about. For decades though they have had a simple outlook.......................... potentially opposing Russia. A lot of their main road system has been built to facilitate the landing of aircraft. Every few miles or so you will see camouflaged revetments on the sides, where aircraft can hide. That's the sort of outlook they have.

Their aircraft are quite formidable, technologically.

So , no, their decision to join NATO, after a century of neutrality, isn't "of no significance to Russia". In fact it's pretty momentous. :wink:
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Paphitis » Sat Jul 22, 2023 5:48 pm

Kikapu wrote:I thought I would preempt Paphitis and say that the new attack on the Crimea Bridge was done by the Russians, just as they blew up the Nord Stream 2, the Damn and almost the Nuclear power station! :roll:


Then this just confirms that you bitches are delusional bitches.

Ukraine blowing up the bridge is an actual objective in order to disrupt Russian supply lines. The fact that Ukraine has pulled it off a second time, is a massive win for them.

Nord Stream 2 could have been the Ukrainians, but they have never admitted to it so no one exactly knows for sure as both sides have a strong enough motive. The Merikans, who you bitches hate, admitted that the Ukrainians did have at one point a plan to blow it up and the Merikans did say to the Ukrainians that they would not be supportive of such an action, which is probably why the Ukrainians won't ever admit to it even if they did do it.

But I can tell you this. If I was Zalensky, I would target Nord Stream 2. I would view it as a military target.

Now as for the Nuclear Power station, Ukraine has no motive to radiate their entire country for 10,000 years, but Ruzzia does. Especially now when they are teetering towards a disastrous military collapse.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Paphitis » Sat Jul 22, 2023 5:51 pm

Lordo wrote:Has there been any news about the Ukrainians dropping cluster bombs?


Yes, they have been dropping cluster bombs since yesterday.

Have you got any problem with it?

The US, and Ukraine have not signed any treaty to ban these weapons. Neither has Ruzzia for that matter.

There is no issue with Cluster Bombs as long as they are not used against nonmilitary targets.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Paphitis » Sat Jul 22, 2023 5:53 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Lordo wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Lordo wrote:Has there been any news about the Ukrainians dropping cluster bombs?

https://southfront.org/first-videos-sho ... an-forces/

If they have been using them all along and it has not stopped the advanced surely it will not make any difference now either. Talk of bashing your head against the wall and all that.


I agree. Just to clear up the false narrative that these are some kind of wonder weapons. They are not!
They just kill many civilians after the war ends.
And they are only good for a defender in case the offender attacks with too many concentrated equipment and troops. Presumably the Ukrs are on the offensive now....
It seems they have no other choice, because they run out of normal ammunition. 8)


Ukraine has a lot of wonder weapons.

Cluster bombs are extremely effective against concentrated Russian attacks. Ruzzians nearly always concentrate their forces. The Ukrainians for the most part spread themselves out because they have adopted NATO military doctrine.

As a result, Ukraine will get good results.

And as for wonder weapons, Ukraine is set to receive western fighter jets by end of this year. We are in this for the long haul. Ruzzia will not be in it for the end and will lose.

Not only that, but Poland is gearing up and readying for the worst, against Belarus. So buckle up bitches, NATO is getting ready to fuck Ruzzia right up if it needs to.

'And make no mistake about it, Poland can fuck Ruzzia right up on their own. Same with Turkey.

Ruzzia is a nothingburger and can't even defend themselves against 10,000 militia, let alone NATO.

NATO and North Amerika are ready for the Nuclear attack bitches. It will be the last thing Ruzzia ever does just moments before it ceases to exist.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Paphitis » Sat Jul 22, 2023 6:04 pm

Kikapu wrote:So, Ukraine is now openly admitting and gloating about attacking the Crimea Bridge whereas in the past, they would not admit to anything, even if they were responsible for it.

Well, this change with Ukraine is very easy to explained, because Ukraine is desperate to make any claim of success because they have had almost no success with their Spring/Summer offensive for the past 6 weeks as they have lost thousands of soldiers and hundreds of tanks and similar equipment, personnel carriers and aircraft.

However, the truth is, the bridge will be repaired and put back in service again as soon as possible, but there’s no bringing back the destructions Ukraine is suffering by the Russians. The bridge to Crimea is not the life line to the Russians in this war, but just a inconvenience for awhile. Crimea was serviced by Russia by ships for many years before the bridge was built and the ships will be used again until the bridge is repaired and beyond..


Ukraine admitted attacking the Bridge on both occasions and views it as a major military objective.
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