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by **Pyrpolizer** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 12:30 pm

Kikapu wrote:Bad news for “Team Popcorn”!

29 Jun, 2023 16:13
HomeWorld News

Ukraine will need 117 years to take territories from Russia – Seymour Hersh

The $150 billion spent by the US in Ukraine is a “very bad investment,” the Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter claimed.

Kiev’s inability to penetrate Russian defensive lines should serve as a “wake-up call” in Washington, veteran journalist Seymour Hersh warned on Thursday.

Citing battlefield statistics obtained from an unnamed source, Hersh claimed that Ukrainian forces have only managed to capture two square miles of Russian-held land over the last ten days of fighting. In the two weeks beforehand, he continued, the Ukrainian military took only 44 square miles of territory, much of it open land located before the first of Russia’s multiple defensive lines.

With Russia holding 40,000 square miles land that had previously been part of Ukraine, an “informed official” told Hersh that “it would take [Ukrainian President Vladimir] Zelensky’s military 117 years” to reimpose Kiev's rule over the territories.

https://www.rt.com/news/578923-ukraine- ... den-hersh/

I guess 117 years, assuming they won't lose 15% of their equipment and manpower every 10 days....
Since Russia did her 1st mobilization the Ukrs have already done 3, now on 4th including Kiev, Kharkiv, and another region :!:

by **Kikapu** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:32 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Kikapu wrote:Bad news for “Team Popcorn”!

29 Jun, 2023 16:13
HomeWorld News

Ukraine will need 117 years to take territories from Russia – Seymour Hersh

The $150 billion spent by the US in Ukraine is a “very bad investment,” the Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter claimed.

Kiev’s inability to penetrate Russian defensive lines should serve as a “wake-up call” in Washington, veteran journalist Seymour Hersh warned on Thursday.

Citing battlefield statistics obtained from an unnamed source, Hersh claimed that Ukrainian forces have only managed to capture two square miles of Russian-held land over the last ten days of fighting. In the two weeks beforehand, he continued, the Ukrainian military took only 44 square miles of territory, much of it open land located before the first of Russia’s multiple defensive lines.

With Russia holding 40,000 square miles land that had previously been part of Ukraine, an “informed official” told Hersh that “it would take [Ukrainian President Vladimir] Zelensky’s military 117 years” to reimpose Kiev's rule over the territories.

https://www.rt.com/news/578923-ukraine- ... den-hersh/

I guess 117 years, assuming they won't lose 15% of their equipment and manpower every 10 days....
Since Russia did her 1st mobilization the Ukrs have already done 3, now on 4th including Kiev, Kharkiv, and another region

Also assuming Ukraine does not lose more land. :wink:

by **Pyrpolizer** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:43 pm

Kikapu wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Kikapu wrote:Bad news for “Team Popcorn”!

29 Jun, 2023 16:13
HomeWorld News

Ukraine will need 117 years to take territories from Russia – Seymour Hersh

The $150 billion spent by the US in Ukraine is a “very bad investment,” the Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter claimed.

Kiev’s inability to penetrate Russian defensive lines should serve as a “wake-up call” in Washington, veteran journalist Seymour Hersh warned on Thursday.

Citing battlefield statistics obtained from an unnamed source, Hersh claimed that Ukrainian forces have only managed to capture two square miles of Russian-held land over the last ten days of fighting. In the two weeks beforehand, he continued, the Ukrainian military took only 44 square miles of territory, much of it open land located before the first of Russia’s multiple defensive lines.

With Russia holding 40,000 square miles land that had previously been part of Ukraine, an “informed official” told Hersh that “it would take [Ukrainian President Vladimir] Zelensky’s military 117 years” to reimpose Kiev's rule over the territories.

https://www.rt.com/news/578923-ukraine- ... den-hersh/

I guess 117 years, assuming they won't lose 15% of their equipment and manpower every 10 days....
Since Russia did her 1st mobilization the Ukrs have already done 3, now on 4th including Kiev, Kharkiv, and another region

Also assuming Ukraine does not lose more land.

Which it actually does, e.g. in Kupyansk the Russians already crossed the Oskol river creating a bridgehead, that may expand fast in the direction of kharkiv or simply create a cauldron around Kupyansk.

by **Kikapu** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 1:57 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
Kikapu wrote:Bad news for “Team Popcorn”!

29 Jun, 2023 16:13
HomeWorld News

Ukraine will need 117 years to take territories from Russia – Seymour Hersh

The $150 billion spent by the US in Ukraine is a “very bad investment,” the Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter claimed.

Kiev’s inability to penetrate Russian defensive lines should serve as a “wake-up call” in Washington, veteran journalist Seymour Hersh warned on Thursday.

Citing battlefield statistics obtained from an unnamed source, Hersh claimed that Ukrainian forces have only managed to capture two square miles of Russian-held land over the last ten days of fighting. In the two weeks beforehand, he continued, the Ukrainian military took only 44 square miles of territory, much of it open land located before the first of Russia’s multiple defensive lines.

With Russia holding 40,000 square miles land that had previously been part of Ukraine, an “informed official” told Hersh that “it would take [Ukrainian President Vladimir] Zelensky’s military 117 years” to reimpose Kiev's rule over the territories.

https://www.rt.com/news/578923-ukraine- ... den-hersh/

I guess 117 years, assuming they won't lose 15% of their equipment and manpower every 10 days....
Since Russia did her 1st mobilization the Ukrs have already done 3, now on 4th including Kiev, Kharkiv, and another region

Also assuming Ukraine does not lose more land.

Which it actually does, e.g. in Kupyansk the Russians already crossed the Oskol river creating a bridgehead, that may expand fast in the direction of kharkiv or simply create a cauldron around Kupyansk.

In order for NATO to lose interest in Ukraine, Russia would need to take Odessa and all of the Black Sea coastline of Ukraine. :wink:

by **Robin Hood** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 6:06 pm

Michael Hudson is a ‘financial man’ not a political journalist. The article is a good read and, as these early paragraphs mentioned the reality if the Ukraine war I have posted it here. IMO: He carries quite a sound argument.

America Has Just Destroyed a Great Empire MICHAEL HUDSON • JUNE 29, 2023

Fast-forward to today’s drive by the Biden administration to extend American military power against Russia and, behind it, China. The president asked for advice from today’s analogue to antiquity’s Delphi oracle: the CIA and its allied think tanks. Instead of warning against hubris, they encouraged the neocon dream that attacking Russia and China would consolidate U.S. control of the world economy, achieving the End of History.

Having organized a coup d’état in Ukraine in 2014, the United States sent its NATO proxy army eastward, giving weapons to Ukraine to fight an ethnic war against its Russian-speaking population and turn Russia’s Crimean naval base into a NATO fortress. This Croesus-level ambition aimed at drawing Russia into combat and depleting its ability to defend itself, wrecking its economy in the process and destroying its ability to provide military support to China and other countries targeted for seeking self-dependency as an alternative to U.S. hegemony.

After eight years of provocation, a new military attack on Russian-speaking Ukrainians was conspicuously prepared, ready to drive toward the Russian border in February 2022. Russia protected its fellow Russian-speakers from further ethnic violence by mounting its own Special Military Operation. The United States and its NATO allies immediately seized Russia’s foreign-exchange reserves held in Europe and North America, and demanded that all countries impose sanctions against importing Russian energy and grain, hoping that this would crash the ruble’s exchange rate. The Delphic State Department expected that this would cause Russian consumers to revolt and overthrow Vladimir Putin’s government, enabling U.S. manoeuvring to install a client oligarchy like the one it had nurtured in the 1990s under President Yeltsin.

Full article 1500 words ..............

https://www.unz.com/mhudson/america-has-just-destroyed-a-great-empire/

by **repulsewarrior** » Fri Jun 30, 2023 9:19 pm

...more realpolitik.

...was it the ''windfall tax'' that brought on the Wagner uprising.

by **Kikapu** » Sat Jul 01, 2023 7:13 am

Robin Hood wrote:Michael Hudson is a ‘financial man’ not a political journalist. The article is a good read and, as these early paragraphs mentioned the reality if the Ukraine war I have posted it here. IMO: He carries quite a sound argument.

America Has Just Destroyed a Great Empire MICHAEL HUDSON • JUNE 29, 2023

Fast-forward to today’s drive by the Biden administration to extend American military power against Russia and, behind it, China. The president asked for advice from today’s analogue to antiquity’s Delphi oracle: the CIA and its allied think tanks. Instead of warning against hubris, they encouraged the neocon dream that attacking Russia and China would consolidate U.S. control of the world economy, achieving the End of History.

Having organized a coup d’état in Ukraine in 2014, the United States sent its NATO proxy army eastward, giving weapons to Ukraine to fight an ethnic war against its Russian-speaking population and turn Russia’s Crimean naval base into a NATO fortress. This Croesus-level ambition aimed at drawing Russia into combat and depleting its ability to defend itself, wrecking its economy in the process and destroying its ability to provide military support to China and other countries targeted for seeking self-dependency as an alternative to U.S. hegemony.

After eight years of provocation, a new military attack on Russian-speaking Ukrainians was conspicuously prepared, ready to drive toward the Russian border in February 2022. Russia protected its fellow Russian-speakers from further ethnic violence by mounting its own Special Military Operation. The United States and its NATO allies immediately seized Russia’s foreign-exchange reserves held in Europe and North America, and demanded that all countries impose sanctions against importing Russian energy and grain, hoping that this would crash the ruble’s exchange rate. The Delphic State Department expected that this would cause Russian consumers to revolt and overthrow Vladimir Putin’s government, enabling U.S. manoeuvring to install a client oligarchy like the one it had nurtured in the 1990s under President Yeltsin.

Full article 1500 words ..............

https://www.unz.com/mhudson/america-has-just-destroyed-a-great-empire/

Yes, this was a good read.

by **Londonrake** » Sat Jul 01, 2023 5:17 pm

Kikapu wrote:LR, you are so soaked to the core in the Western propaganda pickle that you cannot see the Ukraine-Russia conflict clearly as you continue with the mantra that Russia failed to capture all of Ukraine as it did with Crimea! This is one of many things which you cannot see that is not Black & White, which I am not willing to go over with you again and again in discussing it as it has been done many times over the last 16 months. It’s the old adage with you that you can take the donkey to the water but you cannot....which I’m sure you know what follows!

Funny, it seems to me that yourself and - mostly - Pyrpro/RH are "soaked to the core" ...................with Russian propaganda. There's absolutely nothing they pump out which you don't accept unquestioningly, then faithfully echo. Calling others "gullible" if they should dare to disagree.

I congratulate Pyrpro. His clear objective of eliminating anybody on this thread who disagrees with the party line (he has a list FFS :roll:

) has recently more-or-less come about. It's all "Yes that was a good article" stuff. And that makes for an interesting "discussion"? :roll:

I don't think I have problems seeing things "clearly" actually.

"Mantra"?

Despite Putin and Lavrov lying about it several times (fair enough) 190,000 Russian troops invaded Ukraine on 24 Feb 2022. An armoured Russian column, over 40 miles long, headed for Kyiv. At the same time Russian airborne forces attacked Antonov airport, 10kms from Kyiv, in order to establish a strategic airbridge close to the city. If you don't think the intention was to take Kyiv and in essence the entire country - replacing it's government with a Lukashenko clone - then I submit you're deluded. Both efforts were rebuffed, due to unanticipated strong Ukrainian resistance.

Putin's publicly declared objectives at the outset were to "de-nazify" (come on, from a 22 year long dictator - grabbing his neighbour's territory?) and "de- militarise" Ukraine. Clearly, those couldn't be achieved by merely occupying parts of southern and eastern Ukraine. You needed to take the whole country.

I would like to think we can express our views with mutual respect. So, please drop the condescending stuff. That is, you haven't gone things "over and over" with me. In fact, most of your responses to my inputs have been fairly dismissive. As an example, I posted an article (rare for me) which was fairly uncontentious from the Beeb. It was a chronological list of Ukraine invasion events from 24 Feb 22. Your reaction was along the lines of "it's rubbish for the gullible" and "I don't have time to respond". On the same day Pyrpro posted a 300+ word effort, accompanied by a 2.5 hour video. To which your response was "I watched it in its entirety and found it very informative". That's the sort of "rational discussion" this thread entails.

Repeating something, over and over, doesn't make it true.

What do yourself/Pyrpro/RH (I don't include Lordo. The man's a a sycophantic idiot) want?

Pedantic I know but it's "take a horse to water" . :wink: