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Ukrainian Issue

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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Pyrpolizer » Thu Apr 20, 2023 3:19 pm

Robin Hood wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:Anyone who thinks the Russian special military operation in Ukraine is based on one and only reason, is ignorant. Anyone who thinks all those billions poured in Ukraine, are in support of Western values about democracy, freedom, and sovereignty, suffers from cranial rectal defilement (as McGregor says). :lol: :lol: :lol:

I would suggest that you are wrong in that assumption!

The SMO from the very beginning was named such because it WAS an operation with a single purpose. That purpose was clearly stated at the time by the Russians to be a special operation of limited scope and that was to protect the population of Donbas from what would probably have been a genocide by the Kyiv regime had they not responded as they did.... (snip)


That was one of the many reasons. All you have to do, is just check what were/are the OFFICIALLY published Russian objectives of the SMO, which include de-nazification, and de-militarisation of Ukraine. If the objective was to just to protect the people of Donbas , there wouldn't be any need to de-nazify the rest of the Ukraine. However Russian speakers are still the majority in many other areas outside Donbas, therefore the objective is not limited to Donbas. If the objective did not include the expansion of Nato within Ukraine as a whole, there wouldn't be any need to de-militarize the whole of Ukraine.
Nato expansion in Ukraine having 1375 Km land borders with Russia, plus the frequently spoken Ukrainian/Nato objective to retake Crimea,
is obviously one of the main reasons.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Robin Hood » Thu Apr 20, 2023 4:31 pm

Whilst SKY and the BBC are wetting there knickers over Russian spy ships ...... that have been doing this for years :roll: ......... they forgot to mention a bit of news that had a far bigger impact (excuse the pun) on the current stand-off between Russia and NATO. 200-300 top brass Ukraine military personnel, and including dozens of NATO senior military, have been wiped out in an attack on a bunker 400 feet underground in Kyiv(?).

What a surprise that this has not been mentioned in the Western media?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JwcODSD_gA ............ from 39 minutes.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Londonrake » Thu Apr 20, 2023 6:02 pm

Robin Hood wrote:Whilst SKY and the BBC are wetting there knickers over Russian spy ships ...... that have been doing this for years :roll:


Not sure about wetting knickers. Finding stuff to fill the 24/7 rolling news nowadays has it's drawbacks. I would question whether, given the general conflict scenario stated, such vessels would get to make it out of a Russian port then far enough to inflict any damage. :? Unless they're thinking of using some sub-surface means. Even that would be a neat trick I think.

But yes. Throughout my - long gone now - tenure, the Russians (sorry, Soviets :wink:) had a "spy ship" (designation AGI) permanently on-station at a place called the Malin Head, which was off the most northerly point of Ireland. It's principle role being to monitor UK/US nuclear subs transiting out of Faslane into their oceanic patrol areas, or heading back to port. I heard if they detected one they would sometimes play loud music under the surface. Presumably to make a point. When we flew out of Kinloss into the eastern Atlantic we would usually update its position for the int people. That was easy enough but to make it interesting we would sometimes turn off all our transmitters and use the passive transmission receiver to home on their nav radar, going in low level to surprise them and maybe getting some pictures of them doing something interesting. Actually, .....................................................I don't think we ever managed that. :lol:

After suffering an early submarine disaster they also kept a rescue tug sitting off the Shetlands, as a contingency.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Robin Hood » Fri Apr 21, 2023 10:20 am

Londonrake wrote:
Robin Hood wrote:Whilst SKY and the BBC are wetting there knickers over Russian spy ships ...... that have been doing this for years :roll:


Not sure about wetting knickers. Finding stuff to fill the 24/7 rolling news nowadays has it's drawbacks. I would question whether, given the general conflict scenario stated, such vessels would get to make it out of a Russian port then far enough to inflict any damage. :? Unless they're thinking of using some sub-surface means. Even that would be a neat trick I think.

But yes. Throughout my - long gone now - tenure, the Russians (sorry, Soviets :wink:) had a "spy ship" (designation AGI) permanently on-station at a place called the Malin Head, which was off the most northerly point of Ireland. It's principle role being to monitor UK/US nuclear subs transiting out of Faslane into their oceanic patrol areas, or heading back to port. I heard if they detected one they would sometimes play loud music under the surface. Presumably to make a point. When we flew out of Kinloss into the eastern Atlantic we would usually update its position for the int people. That was easy enough but to make it interesting we would sometimes turn off all our transmitters and use the passive transmission receiver to home on their nav radar, going in low level to surprise them and maybe getting some pictures of them doing something interesting. Actually, .....................................................I don't think we ever managed that. :lol:

After suffering an early submarine disaster they also kept a rescue tug sitting off the Shetlands, as a contingency.


You missed the point of the post. I was merely passing on a news story that you won't find in the BBC, SKY, Guardian, Telegraph etc.
SKY have now replaced the Russian 'Ghost' ship story with another anti-Russian bit of propaganda!

'The Missing Children of Ukraine' ! .... but It is just a string of suitably exaggerated stories of the normal occurrences of war made to give the impression Russia is abducting 'thousands' of children. If people accept this as even remotely true ....... then they obviously cannot think for themselves.

A few weeks ago I watched a parallel program on the same subject from an independent source. YES ..... the Russians ARE moving orphans and other groups out of the conflict areas to safe havens inside Russia. Completely different story and with videos taken at several of these centers. The Russians are educating, feeding, housing and clothing these children and whilst the life style may not be what they would wish for the Russians are doing what they can to help and have a program to trace family members. When a child's family is found the Russians return them.

Western propaganda like you see on TV and read about in he MSM, is so transparent it pisses me off! :x
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Londonrake » Fri Apr 21, 2023 7:10 pm

Ohh dear. :(

Robin Hood wrote:You missed the point of the post. I was merely passing on a news story that you won't find in the BBC, SKY, Guardian, Telegraph etc.


Not at all.

You pointed out that Russian spy ships have been around for a long time. I agreed with you and added a bit about them from my own experiences. A bit of colour? Sadly lacking on this forum since the abrupt departure of GR( :lol: )

Whilst the press refer to the vessel in question as a "spy" ship (sounds sexier) it isn't. It's task is primarily oceanographic survey/research. So, quite what it's been doing is anybody's guess. Given it's course and capabilities not really rocket science though.

You might be surprised to learn I did watch the section you suggested of the video you linked to. Clayton Morris is an interesting character with quite a chequered background but let's not shoot the messenger. :wink:

Not a single sentence of his is lacking in direction, prejudice and hyperbole. Objectivity is definitely not on the menu. It's the usual "independent" vitriolically anti-west stuff. Great looking, well animated website though. Loved the scrolling devoted zealots chat.

If you listen, other than parroting claims made by the Russian Defence Ministry (on April 10th actually) about the alleged attack on a Ukrainian bunker, he doesn't actually offer any evidence. It mainly rests on his repetitive claims that the proof somehow lies in the fact nobody else has reported it. :? Oops, sorry, I'm forgetting. Apparently Zelenskyy appearing on TV "looking like a beaten dog" constitutes collaborative evidence. :roll:

His "shocking" revelation of Doctrow (who?) supposedly being cut-off, because he'd gotten to the "interesting" bit was a non sequitur/straw man. The guy had sufficient time to make exactly and all (word for word actually) the same points Morris had about the supposed destruction of the bunker by a Khinzal missile.

And - yes - you're 100% right. You won't find anything about the event from most MSM sources in a search. Where you can it's mostly backwater and there just repetition of the Russian Defence Ministry's claim. An organisation which, as we all know, is famous for it's dedication to unbiased truth.

Seriously. Does anyone really believe (a dangerous question to ask around here :lol: ) that 300 high level Ukrainian officials and "dozens" of top NATO personnel were killed on 10th April in a Russian attack and almost 2 weeks later not a word of it has leaked out? Nothing from any of their families/friends/colleagues/nosey journalists? Sorry, but you really have to be a devoted Russian fan to accept that at face value. As ever, I'm open to being proved wrong.

Morris wheels out the usual suspects, Ritter and Macgregor. I watched that Ritter interview a while ago. It's been spliced in. Having listened in the past to him saying that the Russian Armed Forces have achieved one of the greatest victories in military history in Ukraine I filed him under "I" for Idiot. I can only think that he and Macgregor (both, like me, long past their military background best before dates), obviously like Clayton, are making a very nice living out of it. The fact they churn the stuff out freely, safely and unhindered from their comfortable homes in the States (Clayton in Portugal I believe), whilst a man in Russia has just been locked up for 25 years for daring to criticise the war, remains unspoken and suggests nothing in here regarding the differences between present-day Putin's Russia and the West. And the stuff their state controlled media feeds to the population daily doesn't piss you off of course. :wink:

So - enough for now?

Barring unforeseeable events this war's likely to go on for a considerable time I suspect. Personally, I'm hoping for an unforeseeable event.
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Londonrake » Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:31 pm

Alternate realities.



Conspiracy.jpg
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Pyrpolizer » Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:45 pm

What's the nuclear technology the Americans placed in ZNPP??
Also note the degree of disinformation from Western Media. While the Ukrainians constantly shell the factory risking causing a new Chernobil, the article says:
The plant has frequently been disconnected from Ukraine’s power grid due to intense Russian shelling in the area, raising fears across Europe of a nuclear accident.

http://www.cnnphilippines.com/world/202 ... plant.html


Credit due to Duran's Alex Christoforou video here:
Topic starts at ~ the 15' timeline
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJbzRPMJYU
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Robin Hood » Sat Apr 22, 2023 8:54 am

Pyrpolizer wrote:What's the nuclear technology the Americans placed in ZNPP??
Also note the degree of disinformation from Western Media. While the Ukrainians constantly shell the factory risking causing a new Chernobil, the article says:
The plant has frequently been disconnected from Ukraine’s power grid due to intense Russian shelling in the area, raising fears across Europe of a nuclear accident.

http://www.cnnphilippines.com/world/202 ... plant.html


Credit due to Duran's Alex Christoforou video here:
Topic starts at ~ the 15' timeline
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UJbzRPMJYU

I thought the ZNPP was a Russian design and construction? :|

I agree with your other comments ...... it would be obvious to most people that the last people to try and shell the ZNPP would be the Russians?
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Robin Hood » Sat Apr 22, 2023 9:08 am

Londonrake wrote:Alternate realities.



Conspiracy.jpg


Ha Ha HA ...... if the lecturer is a Russian ........ cartoon 2 applies! If he is one of the western good guys .......... the cartoon 2 is all conspiracy theory!

I have always tried to stick to facts You should try it!

Take 9/11 and WTC7 ...... and apply Newtons Laws of motion and it simply cannot happen as officially described! But YOU would never accept that because NEWTON would be a conspiracy theorist as far as you are concerned. :roll:
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Re: Ukrainian Issue

Postby Londonrake » Sat Apr 22, 2023 9:31 am

Robin Hood wrote:Ha Ha HA ...... if the lecturer is a Russian ........ cartoon 2 applies! If he is one of the western good guys .......... the cartoon 2 is all conspiracy theory!

I have always tried to stick to facts You should try it!

Take 9/11 and WTC7 ...... and apply Newtons Laws of motion and it simply cannot happen as officially described! But YOU would never accept that because NEWTON would be a conspiracy theorist as far as you are concerned. :roll:


Oh, well. My expectation bar wasn't set very high. Perhaps it got the old juices flowing there again for a while. Although, I didn't resort to personal stuff like YOU :wink: . Should I respond in kind it would no doubt see us going down the same old well-trodden path. Which tends to morph at some point into it all being my fault. Then....................... :(

It's a cynical ole world, where facts and statistics tend to be a lot more subjective than they should. Mr Morris anyway doesn't appear to be troubling himself with many.

Perhaps, as Homer has famously said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF6SNxNIV08

And

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tzfl1wTemM

:lol:
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