Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

What is the difference going to be with the BBF negotiated between Akinci and Anstasiades and the BBF that is going to be negotiated between Christodoulides and the next BBF supporting TC leader?
Is he going to ask that the Guarantees and TA are removed from day one?
Is he going to ask for more territory.

What is there left to ask?

What I find amazing is that you saw the BBF between Akinci and Anastasiades as division. And yet Tatar did not want it then, nor does he want it now. Is perhaps Tatar too stupid to realise that BBF negotiated then was for a division?

You are not making sense Pypro.

Explain please.

That's not what I said.
Anastasiades and Akinci were not discussing the Annan plan on the first place, but a totally different plan.
Tatar like Eroglu and Denktash want an agreed partition, a crystal clear thing, a definite and ever lasting 2 separate states in Cyprus. BBF is not acceptable to them under any shape or form.

There were only a few things left to be agreed at Grans Montana before the dead end. About one month later Akinci said publicly he was willing to continue negotiations according to Guderes document, but they got stuck on what that "non paper" was saying.

Furthermore I have no idea what a good will GC/TC leader are going to demand in a new round of negotiations, the sure thing is that if they both insist on opposing red lines, there won't be any solution. There should be a give and take on each sides' red lines imo.

[repulsewarrior]

...indeed, consider what would be better.

[Lordo]

You can't just leave it at that. Never mind what the new president will demand. How about if you two said what would be acceptable to you for peace.

I am assuming BBF is given but what within it would be acceptable?

Akinci offered removal of both Guarantees and TA after a period. Subject to setting up the Federal Structure Security system.
They were within 2% of the territory requirements with 3% of land being offered by the Brits for peace.
Of course TCs will want both Ercan and Famagusta ports opened to the world.

anything else?

[Pyrpolizer]

You can't just leave it at that. Never mind what the new president will demand. How about if you two said what would be acceptable to you for peace.

I am assuming BBF is given but what within it would be acceptable?

Akinci offered removal of both Guarantees and TA after a period. Subject to setting up the Federal Structure Security system.
They were within 2% of the territory requirements with 3% of land being offered by the Brits for peace.
Of course TCs will want both Ercan and Famagusta ports opened to the world.

anything else?

No, it wasn't Akinci who proposed something about the Guarantees. It was Chavusoglu. What he offered was Turkey's re-examination of the guarantees after 15 years. In this way Turkey could retain leverage on the new state indefinitely, no matter what the Cypriots might think.

I personally wouldn't mind keeping the 1960 Guarantees assuming new terms for possible Turkish/Greek/British "intervention" on the condition that the issue of Guarantees is on the hands of the CYPRIOTS themselves via voting every 5 years. If both GCs and TCs (each side voting separately) agree in abolishing them, then all guarantors should pack and leave.

Don't you think it's silly to believe that Ercan and Fam. ports wouldn't open after a solution???

[Lordo]

Yes it would be silly but you never know.

Once the Federal security is set up, we will not need TA or guarantees. Even the TCs would vote them away. And I agree this time Only the Cypriots will decide if they should go or stay.

Chavusoglu may have said it but it was Akinci who proposed it to Erdogan. The issue we have is Anastasiades developed a habit of bypassing Akinci and talking to Chavushoglu.

The phrase Akinci used was "We are tired of being Yavru Vatan, we want to be Kardesh Vatan", upon which Erdogan shit down the TV station.

[Pyrpolizer]

Yes it would be silly but you never know.

Once the Federal security is set up, we will not need TA or guarantees. Even the TCs would vote them away. And I agree this time Only the Cypriots will decide if they should go or stay.

Chavusoglu may have said it but it was Akinci who proposed it to Erdogan. The issue we have is Anastasiades developed a habit of bypassing Akinci and talking to Chavushoglu.

The phrase Akinci used was "We are tired of being Yavru Vatan, we want to be Kardesh Vatan", upon which Erdogan shit down the TV station.

See we agreed on something. It's not difficult...Of course it's not up to us but from my side I will try to convince the idiots among the GCs when the time comes.

For the moment I am actually worried of who might get elected in Turkey. I know Akshener is a bitch -even worse than Erdogan, not so sure about Kilicdaroglu but from what I remember he also seems worse of a Nationalist. What do you think of him?

[Lordo]

Yes it would be silly but you never know.

Once the Federal security is set up, we will not need TA or guarantees. Even the TCs would vote them away. And I agree this time Only the Cypriots will decide if they should go or stay.

Chavusoglu may have said it but it was Akinci who proposed it to Erdogan. The issue we have is Anastasiades developed a habit of bypassing Akinci and talking to Chavushoglu.

The phrase Akinci used was "We are tired of being Yavru Vatan, we want to be Kardesh Vatan", upon which Erdogan shit down the TV station.

See we agreed on something. It's not difficult...Of course it's not up to us but from my side I will try to convince the idiots among the GCs when the time comes.

For the moment I am actually worried of who might get elected in Turkey. I know Akshener is a bitch -even worse than Erdogan, not so sure about Kilicdaroglu but from what I remember he also seems worse of a Nationalist. What do you think of him?

It will be Kilicdaroglu. The positive aspect is he has been speaking to others including Imamoglu so in order to have their support, he may well have to soften his stance. But I really do think the GC negotiators should simply refuse to talk to any Turkish leader and insist on negotiating with the TC leader assuming it is going to be somebody from CTP(Erhurman) or TKP (Akinci's party). Leave it to the TC leadership to deal with the bastards across the water.

Ideally I would like Imamoglu to stand but at this point it is not certain he can.

[repulsewarrior]

...big efforts have to be done by DISY and AKEL, the two leading parties historically in Cyprus, to reach out as Cypriot Parties to like minded people (and Parties) across the island.

Policy in that regard must reflect this idea that as Principles go such Parties reflect (and are seen to reflect) the People of Cyprus, not just one constituency or the other.

...in any case, approval for any reform to the Constitution or the State will require all Citizens to vote, (which as we know at the moment is a dysfunctional process needing change).

With the existential threat that their dwindling support demonstrates, finding an electorate as yet untapped is important to them, for now and the future.

...let's not forget that Cypriots represent the biggest voting block in Cyprus, Turkish or Greek. If it were not the case, a "Greek" or a "Turk" would have won overwhelmingly at one point or the other over the decades.

[Pyrpolizer]

Yes it would be silly but you never know.

Once the Federal security is set up, we will not need TA or guarantees. Even the TCs would vote them away. And I agree this time Only the Cypriots will decide if they should go or stay.

Chavusoglu may have said it but it was Akinci who proposed it to Erdogan. The issue we have is Anastasiades developed a habit of bypassing Akinci and talking to Chavushoglu.

The phrase Akinci used was "We are tired of being Yavru Vatan, we want to be Kardesh Vatan", upon which Erdogan shit down the TV station.

See we agreed on something. It's not difficult...Of course it's not up to us but from my side I will try to convince the idiots among the GCs when the time comes.

For the moment I am actually worried of who might get elected in Turkey. I know Akshener is a bitch -even worse than Erdogan, not so sure about Kilicdaroglu but from what I remember he also seems worse of a Nationalist. What do you think of him?

It will be Kilicdaroglu. The positive aspect is he has been speaking to others including Imamoglu so in order to have their support, he may well have to soften his stance. But I really do think the GC negotiators should simply refuse to talk to any Turkish leader and insist on negotiating with the TC leader assuming it is going to be somebody from CTP(Erhurman) or TKP (Akinci's party). Leave it to the TC leadership to deal with the bastards across the water.

Ideally I would like Imamoglu to stand but at this point it is not certain he can.

I would also prefer Imamoglu, and inshallah on having someone from CTP or TKP.

[Pyrpolizer]

...big efforts have to be done by DISY and AKEL, the two leading parties historically in Cyprus, to reach out as Cypriot Parties to like minded people (and Parties) across the island.

Policy in that regard must reflect this idea that as Principles go such Parties reflect (and are seen to reflect) the People of Cyprus, not just one constituency or the other.

...in any case, approval for any reform to the Constitution or the State will require all Citizens to vote, (which as we know at the moment is a dysfunctional process needing change).

With the existential threat that their dwindling support demonstrates, finding an electorate as yet untapped is important to them, for now and the future.

...let's not forget that Cypriots represent the biggest voting block in Cyprus, Turkish or Greek. If it were not the case, a "Greek" or a "Turk" would have won overwhelmingly at one point or the other over the decades.

Over the years I made TC friends RW. Not all TCs resonate to my thinking, but my friends do, and I trust them 100%.