Cyprus-Forum.com

[Maximus]

yes, Bordospouro is right, a single GC could return

but the information that he is not volunteering is that not many GC's would be eligible to return or could return for various reasons, including quotas on the number of GC's that could reside in the TC constituent state.

For the rest, like 95% of them, some 190k people;

A dispossessed owner of immovable property would be able to claim for compensation if restitution is not possible but the constituent state from which they hail from would be compensating them.

In other words, the vast majority of GC refugees wouldnt get their property back and the GC constituent state would pay for their loss. As if it could without bankrupting the constituent state...

Doesn't sound right, fair of just to me.

That appalling plan was a disaster, for instances, it stated that the united Cyprus republic would be a full member state of the EU, and have respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. As, they would be enshrined in the Constitution.

Then in the next paragraph, there would be text that would violate someones human rights and not respect their fundamental freedoms. It was full of contradictions like that. As an example, all GC's could live work and travel across the whole of the EU, without restriction. but not in the TC constituent state, which is supposed to be a part of their country that would join the union as well.

Then, simpletons like golobordo, harp on at every turn that the GC's dont want a solution because they voted no to reunification in 2004 and missed their chance to live under Turkish apartheid.

Ignorance is like a desease, it spread if not controlled. I guess you have not read theplan or at least the section on property.

Here is what it says just before what I haveposted.

2. Bearing in mind that the Foundation Agreement provides a domestic remedy for the solution of all matters related to affected property, the United Cyprus Republic shall, pursuant to Article 37 of the 1950 European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, and invoking the fact that the Foundation Agreement is providing a domestic remedy for the solution of all questions related to affected property, inform the European Court of
Human Rights through the letter in Attachment 5 that the United Cyprus Republic shall therefore be the sole responsible State Party and request the Court to strike out any proceedings currently before it concerning affected property, in order to allow the domestic mechanism agreed to solve these cases to proceed.

Now kindly tell me who was controlling what again? I normally would call you "you ignorant embryonic cunt." at this point but I have decided a softer approach may benefit your learning process so snage of strategy for you as you are so young.

This is just waffle, scribbles of an infantile with personality disorder and nothing more than an incoherent and irrelevant reply. A 12 year old football player can do better that this.

I have given you a few examples related to matters of property and fundamental human rights above, and summarized what that local remedy would like like under Annans plan.

You have just replied with obscenity and said there are local remedies for property matters.

The Annan plan was a really bad deal for the GC's, and the majority had the sense to realize that and vote it down.

[Maximus]

Annan Plan could have only passed the EU’s smell test if the AP had actually passed before Cyprus became a full member of the EU after the failed referendum. Today, a similar Annan Plan to the one in 2004 would never pass the EU’s smell test, which is why the BBF is no longer desired by the “ trnc”. The AP boat has sailed in 2004 and that it will never reach land again. That is the reality of the AP’s proposals.

I am afraid you are rather misinformed about the matter Kicks. Akinci discussion which included clarifications regarding property was based on the Annan Plan and it was accepted as late as 2017 in Crans Montana. Their exact comment was what ever the Cypriots accept would be acceptable to us.

The usual shit comes from ameriganos, who started by saying not a single GC would be able to return to their home and yet Annan plan made plenty of provisions for all. It is a simple fact that not all Cypriots would want to return to their village after setting up their life in where ever they may reside today but at least they would get compensation and for some people it would be a life changing sum.

The reason TRNC is not desiring BBF at this point is nothing to do with BBF but more to do with Tatar who never desired BBF in the first place. The second reason is Erdogan wants to use the Cypriots to extract concessions from the Europeans as well as the Americans and if he can get away with from the Russians too.

I know Lordo, but as you know, the AP was about 9,000 pages long, which I am sure not many people knew all the details of all of the 9,000 pages, but most knew just the talking points. I am sure when the EU says “they would accept what the Cypriots would agree to”, would also means that it would need to pass their smell test also. They couldn’t possible make exceptions only to Cyprus and not let Turkey into the EU club under the conditions Turkey wants, not to mention the other EU member states. Before the 2004 referendum the EU would have accepted anything since Cyprus would not be a EU member for another week or so, but at the same time, the EU could have rejected the entry of Cyprus into the EU Club if it did not pass their smell test from the conditions Cyprus applied for the membership in the first place years before. Perhaps the EU was counting on that just to tell Greece who had basically blackmailed the EU to accept Cyprus into the club, “well, we tried, but Cypriots chose to agree to terms which does not pass our smell test”, and Greece would have had to take it in the ass and go along with the EU.

The GC's earned the right to make Cyprus become a full EU member state. They did what was necessary and required of them. Greece didnt blackmail the EU to accept Cyprus as a member state.

If GC's had accepted the banana's plan, they would have contravened their efforts to complete accession chapters in the years before to harmonize with the EU acquis.

If the GC had accepted that plan in 2004, they would have forfeited their rights to accede to the union.

In hindsight, I think they made the right choice by voting it down and acceding to the European Union.

Where are the TC's today? What have they achieved? What do they bring and contribute to Cyprus? What is the status of Turkeys EU membership negotiations? What have they done to harmonize with the Copenhagen criteria? The answer is nothing or not a lot. Still trying to blackmail the GC's in to accepting plans that they impose in bad faith, that are incompatible by international standards.

[repulsewarrior]

...indeed.

What was the Annan Plan let's not forget was changed five times to accommodate Turkey's reservations before it was delivered as a referendum. Let's also remember that the Plan, Annan 5, was presented to the public to vote on, unread. The Annan Plan represents in affect, the failure of 50 years of Turkish Foreign Policy; "it" is off the table, as Annan said.

...with the existential threat imposed on a Cypriot Identity, Cypriots as Cypriots will react; it is not a question of if, but when.

And who will be exposed, but "Them", their intransigence, the notion that Cypriots are few, or that they never really existed will be invalidated.

Greek or "Greek", Turkish or "Turkish"; such as it is, they all live on an island which is the crossroad to three Continents, and according to General Tolon, an unsinkable ship.

[Lordo]

Annan Plan could have only passed the EU’s smell test if the AP had actually passed before Cyprus became a full member of the EU after the failed referendum. Today, a similar Annan Plan to the one in 2004 would never pass the EU’s smell test, which is why the BBF is no longer desired by the “ trnc”. The AP boat has sailed in 2004 and that it will never reach land again. That is the reality of the AP’s proposals.

I am afraid you are rather misinformed about the matter Kicks. Akinci discussion which included clarifications regarding property was based on the Annan Plan and it was accepted as late as 2017 in Crans Montana. Their exact comment was what ever the Cypriots accept would be acceptable to us.

The usual shit comes from ameriganos, who started by saying not a single GC would be able to return to their home and yet Annan plan made plenty of provisions for all. It is a simple fact that not all Cypriots would want to return to their village after setting up their life in where ever they may reside today but at least they would get compensation and for some people it would be a life changing sum.

The reason TRNC is not desiring BBF at this point is nothing to do with BBF but more to do with Tatar who never desired BBF in the first place. The second reason is Erdogan wants to use the Cypriots to extract concessions from the Europeans as well as the Americans and if he can get away with from the Russians too.

I know Lordo, but as you know, the AP was about 9,000 pages long, which I am sure not many people knew all the details of all of the 9,000 pages, but most knew just the talking points. I am sure when the EU says “they would accept what the Cypriots would agree to”, would also means that it would need to pass their smell test also. They couldn’t possible make exceptions only to Cyprus and not let Turkey into the EU club under the conditions Turkey wants, not to mention the other EU member states. Before the 2004 referendum the EU would have accepted anything since Cyprus would not be a EU member for another week or so, but at the same time, the EU could have rejected the entry of Cyprus into the EU Club if it did not pass their smell test from the conditions Cyprus applied for the membership in the first place years before. Perhaps the EU was counting on that just to tell Greece who had basically blackmailed the EU to accept Cyprus into the club, “well, we tried, but Cypriots chose to agree to terms which does not pass our smell test”, and Greece would have had to take it in the ass and go along with the EU.

The GC's earned the right to make Cyprus become a full EU member state. They did what was necessary and required of them. Greece didnt blackmail the EU to accept Cyprus as a member state.

If GC's had accepted the banana's plan, they would have contravened their efforts to complete accession chapters in the years before to harmonize with the EU acquis.

If the GC had accepted that plan in 2004, they would have forfeited their rights to accede to the union.

In hindsight, I think they made the right choice by voting it down and acceding to the European Union.

Where are the TC's today? What have they achieved? What do they bring and contribute to Cyprus? What is the status of Turkeys EU membership negotiations? What have they done to harmonize with the Copenhagen criteria? The answer is nothing or not a lot. Still trying to blackmail the GC's in to accepting plans that they impose in bad faith, that are incompatible by international standards.

That's bullshiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. They allowed Cyprus in because Greece threatened to disrupt all their decision.

[repulsewarrior]

...they allowed Cyprus in because it met the criteria. Their hope that Cypriots would enter with the Problem settled is another story.

[Lordo]

...indeed.

What was the Annan Plan let's not forget was changed five times to accommodate Turkey's reservations before it was delivered as a referendum. Let's also remember that the Plan, Annan 5, was presented to the public to vote on, unread. The Annan Plan represents in affect, the failure of 50 years of Turkish Foreign Policy; "it" is off the table, as Annan said.

...with the existential threat imposed on a Cypriot Identity, Cypriots as Cypriots will react; it is not a question of if, but when.

And who will be exposed, but "Them", their intransigence, the notion that Cypriots are few, or that they never really existed will be invalidated.

Greek or "Greek", Turkish or "Turkish"; such as it is, they all live on an island which is the crossroad to three Continents, and according to General Tolon, an unsinkable ship.

You have fallen prey to GC myths RW.

Perhaps somebody can list for us the 5 things UN changed to appease Turkey.

Papadopoullos was offered the Karpaz Peninsular as territory adjustment and he refused. It was agreed from the start that if there was any open positions the UN would make the decision and they did. Now somebody tell me one thing it was agreed between the parties and it was changed by the UN to suit Turkey. Not all 5 just one and if one arrives we can look at the next.

In the mean time enjoy what you would have got back plus Karpaz of course if you had a visionary as a leader instead of an Eşşek. BTW Tatar send hos regards and thanks you for all you have done to hand a third of Cyprus to the away. Mind you it is a win win really for both communities. At least you get to keep two thirds. If you were left to your own devices you would have handed the whole of Cyprus to Greece. That was a close shave.

[Maximus]

It doesn't matter if it was one, five or ten, changes.

The final version put to referendum was garbage and shot down.

The only thing Turkey should do is get out.

Her citizens can have a temporary residence and work permit, pay tax to the RoC in the interim and then make arrangements to leave within two years when it expires or as the economy requires.

Your lot, can live in a democratic EU state and vote like the rest. The territorial adjustment is 100% of Cyprus for both side.

You will like it or you can leave for Turkey as well.

That is the Maximums plan in 4 lines. Not 9,000 pages.

Problem solved.

[repulsewarrior]

Cyprus first, that makes sense. In that regard it cannot be "Greek", or "Turkish", it is as a Government the representation of a People, who, as Individuals, are committed to defending its Universal values and principals.

As Persons, if there were Cypriot Constituencies, at another level of Government, their distinct identities may thrive demonstrating as such the respect and recognition they have for the minorities that live among them.

...it is a matter of ethnography, the ethos which is Cyprus, and the certain extinction of most of the ethnosphere of this planet, if English as a Language continues in its success over all other Languages.

Cypriots are at the crossroad to three Continents, who survive, mostly as facilitators of exchange. Can a Cypriot reasonably imagine that even in fifty years (never mind two hundred), that demographically things will be the same?

What fear we have among ourselves must be overcome. Existentially speaking, Cypriots have survived these thousands of years by adapting, and bettering themselves as a social people; especially true today, divided, as they are, they must rejoin and mend what was torn apart. Enosis if you will, a word along with their solidarity for Cyprus, they, Cypriots, must take back from the dogmas which have haunted them now decades to end the one Identity rightfully theirs, the one "they" ignore, the one in affect "they" have sought to usurp: that of an Individual without the need for any other distinction or discrimination. Such as it is with "Turkishness", today, a common enemy of all Cypriots (about half the electorate), and as it is in Turkey today, with its People (similarly), where they have been divided by its intentions (and exclusions), as well.

...i am hopeful, because a BBF for both Cyprus, and Turkey, will allow their diversity to sustain themselves, and to thrive.

[Lordo]

It doesn't matter if it was one, five or ten, changes.

The final version put to referendum was garbage and shot down.

The only thing Turkey should do is get out.

Her citizens can have a temporary residence and work permit, pay tax to the RoC in the interim and then make arrangements to leave within two years when it expires or as the economy requires.

Your lot, can live in a democratic EU state and vote like the rest. The territorial adjustment is 100% of Cyprus for both side.

You will like it or you can leave for Turkey as well.

That is the Maximums plan in 4 lines. Not 9,000 pages.

Problem solved.

It is so easy when you are a keyboard warrior and you believe someone else has to do something for it to be solved.

I have not asked how many changes, I have asked for one change to be specified that was agreed by the two sides and it was changed on the request of Turkey.

And as per usual you have not got a clue. That is because it was one of the myths the GCs came up with to get a no vote amongst many others. Annan Plan may have been refused by the GCs but it was approved by the TCs. And since when have you had complete control of the RoC that what you decide goes.

Lets hear it, just one, just a little ol one is all that's required.
Tell me one more beautiful lie.

[Maximus]

You are just full of lies Lordo and your side does what it accuses the other side of doing.

The Turkish foreign ministry, gave a list of 7 points points Turkey wanted the UN team to change ahead of the referendum. Which were all virtually applied to the final draft.

This was the 5th revision of the anan plan.

Anan himself said that numerous amendments, including changes on core issues and reopening of substantial trade-offs, previously agreed with were changed within less than 24 hours of the referendum. Take his word for it.

Personally I dont know where you are going with this, that you need one point out of 5 when the whole thing was shot down in its final version.

I am spoon feeding you now because it is becoming clear that you cant counter any of the points being made and you have not got a clue about the Cyprus problem and the actual essence of it.