Democracy; a matter of Faith...
Bigger than Watergate
...what is the dereliction of duty?
(...what is Criminal intent?)
Londonrake wrote:
I hope I’m not going to be searching back to my early Biden days prediction for an “I told you so” post.
Kikapu wrote:Londonrake wrote:
I hope I’m not going to be searching back to my early Biden days prediction for an “I told you so” post.
Yes, because you were also saying at that time that Biden won’t be able to stand up against Putin.
I wished you were right about that so that we wouldn’t have had this war in Ukraine with hundreds of thousands dead.
Londonrake wrote:Kikapu wrote:Londonrake wrote:
I hope I’m not going to be searching back to my early Biden days prediction for an “I told you so” post.
Yes, because you were also saying at that time that Biden won’t be able to stand up against Putin.
I wished you were right about that so that we wouldn’t have had this war in Ukraine with hundreds of thousands dead.
You've got me there. Do you have a link or quote? I've no recollection of that.
I ask, because comments I made about the possibility of a disastrous Trump resurgence were in the early days of Biden's Presidency. When it became clear his "national unity" inaugural speech was just rhetoric. That, after Putin annexed the Crimea certainly but before anybody had anticipated February 2022's events.
As far as the outcome of the war so far's concerned. As always, I can't get my head around anything other than what to me are the clear realities. Yes, hundreds of thousands dead (however anybody wants to apportion the breakdown). Eight million driven from their homes and refugeed. Entire towns (Mariupol, et al) literally raised to the ground. The war's effects spreading across the world like ripples on a pond.
As much as I've disliked the man, all of that hasn't been down to Biden but Vladimir Putin and Russian guns/missiles/bombs. IMHO, there isn't and never has been justification for the tragedy that's been inflicted upon the people of Ukraine. To spin it as unavoidable, not actually Putin's fault - the man had no choice - I personally regard as absurdity in extremis.
As I've said many times though, this is not something that will ever be agreed upon between opposing factions on platforms like this. Events will prevail and barring some unforeseeable happenstance I suspect they're likely to go on for a considerable time.
Kikapu wrote:I could try and and find the quote but it is not necessary as it isn’t really important as it is not meant to be a “gotcha” moment.
You may have said it before the elections.
For the avoidance of all the destructions you have mentioned above were in the hands of Zelensky and Biden, in the form of the collective West. Had the 2014 Minsk treaty was ratified during the 8 years before the war in 2022, there wouldn’t have been a war. The war would have have happened back in 2014 at a much faster rate at much less death and destruction to Ukraine. The was going to be a war come what may in order to protect the Russian speaking Ukrainians in the East, and the threat of Ukraine becoming a NATO member put the icing on the cake for the war. The rest is history as they say!
Ukraine–NATO relations
Relations between Ukraine and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) started in 1991.[1] Ukraine applied to integrate with a NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008.[2][3] Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych, who preferred to keep the country non-aligned, was elected President.[4][5] Yanukovych fled Ukraine in February 2014 during the Revolution of Dignity.[6] The interim Yatsenyuk Government initially said that it had no plans to join NATO.[7] However, following the Russian annexation of Crimea and Russian military support for armed separatists in eastern Ukraine, the Second Yatsenyuk Government made joining NATO a priority.[8] In February 2019, the Ukrainian parliament voted to amend the Constitution of Ukraine to state Ukraine's goal of NATO and European Union membership.[9][10]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations
Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation
For the 1783 event, see Annexation of the Crimean Khanate by the Russian Empire.
Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation
In February and March 2014, Russia invaded and subsequently annexed the Crimean Peninsula, taking it from Ukraine. This event took place in the aftermath of the Revolution of Dignity and is part of the wider Russo-Ukrainian War.
The events in Kyiv that ousted Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych on 22 February 2014 sparked pro-Russian demonstrations as of 23 February against the incoming new Ukrainian government. At the same time Russian president Vladimir Putin discussed Ukrainian events with security service chiefs remarking that "we must start working on returning Crimea to Russia". On 27 February, Russian troops[32] captured strategic sites across Crimea,[33][34] followed by the installation of the pro-Russian Aksyonov government in Crimea, the Crimean status referendum, and the declaration of Crimea's independence on 16 March 2014.[35][36] Although Russia initially claimed their military was not involved in the events,[37] Putin later admitted that troops were deployed to "stand behind Crimea's self-defence forces".[38] Russia formally incorporated Crimea on 18 March 2014.[39][38
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