Cyprus-Forum.com

[MR-from-NG]

“Erdogan has serious internal problems, mostly to do with the economy, and has decided that the best defence is offence,” Petros Markaris, an author and social commentator who was born in Istanbul to Greek and Armenian parents, told an Italian newspaper, La Stampa. “His political discourse is inspired by the desire to revive the Ottoman Empire.”

He blunders from manufactured crisis to manufactured crisis every month, and marinades them with neo Ottoman ambitions. The electorate are being manipulated with his soap opera's.

When the EU imposes sanctions next month, he will blame the EU for destroying the economy. Many of them will believe him.

I dont think they have found anything in the black sea, it hasn't been independently proven yet.

This might just be a stunt to show the electorate that they haven't wasted their time and money on ships searching for resources in the sea.

You are an admirer of Trump and yet detest Eddie. Strange, they're the same shit different race. Anyway, RTE is an unconventional type of leader to say the least. On this issue though, he seems to have the backing of the vast majority of the public and some of the opposition parties too.

He has come to the conclusion and has convinced the nation that Turks hardly ever get justice in the Christian world so he has made it his ambition/duty to demand and get justice, by force if necessary. He has never pushed the boundaries to such limits as he is now, one wonders if he's just a bullshitter. What worries me is what if he's not bullshitting and is prepared t go all the way? I just watched a video clip just now with Eddie calling on all those that oppose him to stop him if they dare.

[Kikapu]

“Erdogan has serious internal problems, mostly to do with the economy, and has decided that the best defence is offence,” Petros Markaris, an author and social commentator who was born in Istanbul to Greek and Armenian parents, told an Italian newspaper, La Stampa. “His political discourse is inspired by the desire to revive the Ottoman Empire.”

He blunders from manufactured crisis to manufactured crisis every month, and marinades them with neo Ottoman ambitions. The electorate are being manipulated with his soap opera's.

When the EU imposes sanctions next month, he will blame the EU for destroying the economy. Many of them will believe him.

I dont think they have found anything in the black sea, it hasn't been independently proven yet.

This might just be a stunt to show the electorate that they haven't wasted their time and money on ships searching for resources in the sea.

You are an admirer of Trump and yet detest Eddie. Strange, they're the same shit different race. Anyway, RTE is an unconventional type of leader to say the least. On this issue though, he seems to have the backing of the vast majority of the public and some of the opposition parties too.

He has come to the conclusion and has convinced the nation that Turks hardly ever get justice in the Christian world so he has made it his ambition/duty to demand and get justice, by force if necessary. He has never pushed the boundaries to such limits as he is now, one wonders if he's just a bullshitter. What worries me is what if he's not bullshitting and is prepared t go all the way? I just watched a video clip just now with Eddie calling on all those that oppose him to stop him if they dare.

An invitation with a threat!

Who can resist such gestures you may ask?

If Erdogan is trying to reverse history to what happened 98 years ago with the Treaty of Lausanne one piece at a time, he needs to live another 100 years and for Turkey to become a real Super Power in order to do it. He is only trying to save his political neck now with all his bravado, just as Trump is trying to do with his BS lies and deceits. In the end, people deserve the leaders they choose, even though leaders like Erdogan, Putin et al just steal elections and the people are stuck with them until they are no longer.

[Maximus]

“Erdogan has serious internal problems, mostly to do with the economy, and has decided that the best defence is offence,” Petros Markaris, an author and social commentator who was born in Istanbul to Greek and Armenian parents, told an Italian newspaper, La Stampa. “His political discourse is inspired by the desire to revive the Ottoman Empire.”

He blunders from manufactured crisis to manufactured crisis every month, and marinades them with neo Ottoman ambitions. The electorate are being manipulated with his soap opera's.

When the EU imposes sanctions next month, he will blame the EU for destroying the economy. Many of them will believe him.

I dont think they have found anything in the black sea, it hasn't been independently proven yet.

This might just be a stunt to show the electorate that they haven't wasted their time and money on ships searching for resources in the sea.

You are an admirer of Trump and yet detest Eddie. Strange, they're the same shit different race. Anyway, RTE is an unconventional type of leader to say the least. On this issue though, he seems to have the backing of the vast majority of the public and some of the opposition parties too.

He has come to the conclusion and has convinced the nation that Turks hardly ever get justice in the Christian world so he has made it his ambition/duty to demand and get justice, by force if necessary. He has never pushed the boundaries to such limits as he is now, one wonders if he's just a bullshitter. What worries me is what if he's not bullshitting and is prepared t go all the way? I just watched a video clip just now with Eddie calling on all those that oppose him to stop him if they dare.

I'm not an admirer of Trump but I do detest Gollumdogan,

I'm glad we agree that he is a turd.

Gollumdogan is a conventional dictator and I would agree, he has the backing of the vast majority. he has had that for the last two decades. Which says a lot about the people who voted for him and the incompetent ineffective opposition.

He has come to the conclusion that Turkey is in the right, has the legal right and whatever Turkey does is right. But he couldn't be so wrong and has managed to convince most of you otherwise. There is nothing new here, he has been doing that for two decades while amassing a personal fortune of billions. It doesn't take much to cross check what he says to verify it. We live in the digital age and even you could manage that. But still, you have difficulty with it. No matter if others do all the work for you and present with logic, "common sense" and facts.

The man is the biggest BS'er to say the least. Corrupt, negligent, criminal, islamo fascist two bit dictator is a suiting description. The ridiculous thing is, most of you Turks lap it up and blunder along with him.

Yeah, he might go all the way, he might not, which wont be good for anyone but what I am confident about if he does is that his end will be similar to that of Hitlers.

He will be in hiding in his palatial bunker and put a bullet through his own head.

The thing about you Turkish plonkers is, you wont fight for your own rights and freedoms. You will fight the Greeks like slaves to try and take away theirs or run to them to seek asylum. Then try and repeat the process.

[Londonrake]

If you look at the history, dictators tend to be very popular. At least in the beginning. You know, Mussolini famously getting the trains running on time, Hitler restoring national pride to a down-beaten, Versailles Treaty humiliated, Weimar hyper-inflation Germany.

Nowadays Putin’s following in similar tracks. Land grabbing and annexation to the “Motherland”, based upon the propaganda of protecting a much abused minority. How long, before the Russian minorities in the Baltic states become threatened by their neighbourhood Nazis and are in need of heroic “saving”?

For Hitler, the Wehrmacht march into Austria, accompanied within days by an overwhelmingly approving referendum (sound familiar?), the Czech Sudetenland annexation (Munich). Exactly the same thing as with the Ukrainian Crimea. Then of course, Turkish actions in Cyprus. Perhaps international opprobrium, rather than a “Peace in our time” equivalent has been what’s prevented a formal Turkish annexation?

On most occasions though Dictators ultimately tend to lead their countries, on the back of increasing megalomania and hubris, into tragedy and disaster. Some reaping the whirlwind (Hitler, Mussolini, Ceausescu, Saddam Hussein, Gadhaffi, eventually Galtieri, etc.). Will Erdogan join the list and if so at what ultimate cost to us all?

Anyway, that’s why I personally have a visceral loathing and fear of dictators. I grew up during the 50s in the detritus of Hitler’s efforts. In the end, it all comes down to one man and his ego. An insane situation.

Those who ignore history............

[Kikapu]

If you look at the history, dictators tend to be very popular. At least in the beginning. You know, Mussolini famously getting the trains running on time, Hitler restoring national pride to a down-beaten, Versailles Treaty humiliated, Weimar hyper-inflation Germany.

Nowadays Putin’s following in similar tracks. Land grabbing and annexation to the “Motherland”, based upon the propaganda of protecting a much abused minority. How long, before the Russian minorities in the Baltic states become threatened by their neighbourhood Nazis and are in need of heroic “saving”?

For Hitler, the Wehrmacht march into Austria, accompanied within days by an overwhelmingly approving referendum (sound familiar?), the Czech Sudetenland annexation (Munich). Exactly the same thing as with the Ukrainian Crimea. Then of course, Turkish actions in Cyprus. Perhaps international opprobrium, rather than a “Peace in our time” equivalent has been what’s prevented a formal Turkish annexation?

On most occasions though Dictators ultimately tend to lead their countries, on the back of increasing megalomania and hubris, into tragedy and disaster. Some reaping the whirlwind (Hitler, Mussolini, Ceausescu, Saddam Hussein, Gadhaffi, eventually Galtieri, etc.). Will Erdogan join the list and if so at what ultimate cost to us all?

Anyway, that’s why I personally have a visceral loathing and fear of dictators. I grew up during the 50s in the detritus of Hitler’s efforts. In the end, it all comes down to one man and his ego. An insane situation.

Those who ignore history............

Nicely written, LR, which is why appeasement of such dictators in the making early on only embolden them to become more and more belligerent in their quest to harm the nations around them and ultimately their own nation when they fail ultimately of their bloated egos. The formation of East Mediterranean alliances between Israel, Egypt, Cyprus, Greece, Italy, France and the USA from a distance, it is important to let Erdogan know that he is alone in this region to once again try the return of the Ottoman Empire of the past.

[Maximus]

Some reaping the whirlwind (Hitler, Mussolini, Ceausescu, Saddam Hussein, Gadhaffi, eventually Galtieri, etc.). Will Erdogan join the list and if so at what ultimate cost to us all?

Those who ignore history............

If my memory serves me correctly, all of those countries got bombed to oblivion and then were either occupied by the allied forces and/or a drawn out civil war ensued.

Today, it seems more likely than before that Endorgan is taking Turkey down this same path of destruction. History repeats itself.

Some pundits predicted time ago that Turkey would be erased from the map. I think that is a bit far fetched but maintaining her territorial integrity and the population intact is unlikely. The Kurd will likely secede from the republic, and probably those from the opposition who gollum has made "terrorists" out of.

Turkey didnt win before under similar circumstances, the probability is she wont win again and come away from the fracas worse than ever..

[Paphitis]

“Erdogan has serious internal problems, mostly to do with the economy, and has decided that the best defence is offence,” Petros Markaris, an author and social commentator who was born in Istanbul to Greek and Armenian parents, told an Italian newspaper, La Stampa. “His political discourse is inspired by the desire to revive the Ottoman Empire.”

He blunders from manufactured crisis to manufactured crisis every month, and marinades them with neo Ottoman ambitions. The electorate are being manipulated with his soap opera's.

When the EU imposes sanctions next month, he will blame the EU for destroying the economy. Many of them will believe him.

I dont think they have found anything in the black sea, it hasn't been independently proven yet.

This might just be a stunt to show the electorate that they haven't wasted their time and money on ships searching for resources in the sea.

You are an admirer of Trump and yet detest Eddie. Strange, they're the same shit different race. Anyway, RTE is an unconventional type of leader to say the least. On this issue though, he seems to have the backing of the vast majority of the public and some of the opposition parties too.

He has come to the conclusion and has convinced the nation that Turks hardly ever get justice in the Christian world so he has made it his ambition/duty to demand and get justice, by force if necessary. He has never pushed the boundaries to such limits as he is now, one wonders if he's just a bullshitter. What worries me is what if he's not bullshitting and is prepared t go all the way? I just watched a video clip just now with Eddie calling on all those that oppose him to stop him if they dare.

Chalk and cheese actually.

Trump isn't making illegal claims against the EEZ of other countries or violating UNCLOS anywhere.

Instead, it is conducting Freedom of navigation in the South China Sea- much like what France is doing in the East Med.

[Paphitis]

These days, countries like France and Britain have the technology to observe the Turkish skipper picking his nose from space, and grandpa here is wondering how they’re gonna hit the right target!

No, they don’t. And, I’m not “Wondering” how you hit the right target. Hitting one’s the easier bit. Identifying one correctly’s a tad more difficult. Even with synthetic aperture or pulse compression radar, unless you can tie it in with a positive ESM ident (radar intercept specific to ship type) and fix, or of course visual confirmation, it still comes down to informed guess work.

Cheers there, anyway.

Hello? Ever heard of global positioning systems, ever heard of call signs, ever heard of the myriads of technologies used for target identification and acquisition?

The likes of Britain or France could turn Turkey’s 50 odd naval ships into coral reefs within a week if they wanted to…

Idiotic Erdo doesn’t seem to understand that they’re like two leagues above him in technology!

It's identifying the target that is the issue. Yes, a civilian ship can be hit.

It's happened before, even with American Ships equipped with AEGIS. The USS Vincennes, shot down an Iranian Airliner. They mistook it for an F-14 they claimed. I don't know where the Iranians got the parts to get them flight-worthy at the time.

Firing an Exocet, or a Harpoon will probably give a very small percentage chance of it hitting it's target. A modern warship isn't defenseless with their targeting systems, Missile defense, and Phalanx which just fires a wall of metal in front of the missile.

But if there are 4 or 5 missiles fired, from different surface combatants, or from the air, then the odds increase substantially.

Now imagine a battle group of 5, 10, 15 or 30 ships surrounding an Aircraft carrier. Let's say most of these ships are equipped with AEGIS. Chances of an Exocet or anything hitting them is pretty remote.

The same principle applies when there are a group of let's say 6 Turkish Frigates or 6 Greek Frigates. Each ship has its defenses and tracking systems.

[Paphitis]

Well, a lot of sailors would die for a start. There’s no way back from that. It would mean war and with it a very large number of people dying.

I’m not suggesting you’re one Kicks but it’s struck me over the years there are a lot of keyboard warriors in forums who clearly lust after a major conflict. As long as it doesn’t affect them and their comfortable lives that is. Which it most certainly would of course. Sad people, the lot of them.

France are going to disappoint you I’m afraid. The most obvious trigger for conflict is some sort of mistake/misunderstanding in the heat of a moment which, IMHO, is entirely within the realm of possibility, given what’s currently going on.

My views on the realities of naval warfare are valid. Despite all the gung-ho It isn’t as simple as enunciated in this thread.

Out of curiosity. I would like you to place yourself in Greek or Cypriot shoes.

Turkey has been threatening us for decades, but in the last 2 years, the threats have become more serious.

Turkey is making illegal claims on the EEZs of both countries. The claims are so ridiculous and incoherent. Turkey is making claims as far reaching as south of Crete between Greece and Libya. And let's not forget the legacy of the continued occupation which you can see for yourself.

They are drilling in the Cyprus and Greek EEZ.

The situation is so delicate. If Greece should lose just the island of Kastelorizo, Turkey has won. They would drive a wedge between the Greek and Cypriot EEZ. And then they will claim a EEZ for the island of Kasteloriso to boot, despite saying Greek islands can't do the same.

Turkey, has made claims against the entire Dodecanese islands. It really is absurd.

So what do you propose Greece do? Try and commence a dialogue or prepare for a war which to me seems inevitable now?

A Dialogue isn't going to solve anything. Greece would risk losing something and Turkey is further emboldened to make more insane claims. We have seen this from the Turks over many decades. Their pattern of behavior is consistent.

What do I think is going to happen. I think Turkey is going to invade kastelorizo. It's a small island with a population of 500 people. And yet, it is of immense strategic importance.

[Kikapu]

These days, countries like France and Britain have the technology to observe the Turkish skipper picking his nose from space, and grandpa here is wondering how they’re gonna hit the right target!

No, they don’t. And, I’m not “Wondering” how you hit the right target. Hitting one’s the easier bit. Identifying one correctly’s a tad more difficult. Even with synthetic aperture or pulse compression radar, unless you can tie it in with a positive ESM ident (radar intercept specific to ship type) and fix, or of course visual confirmation, it still comes down to informed guess work.

Cheers there, anyway.

Hello? Ever heard of global positioning systems, ever heard of call signs, ever heard of the myriads of technologies used for target identification and acquisition?

The likes of Britain or France could turn Turkey’s 50 odd naval ships into coral reefs within a week if they wanted to…

Idiotic Erdo doesn’t seem to understand that they’re like two leagues above him in technology!

It;'s identifying the target that is the issue. Yes, a civilian shit can be hit.

It's happened before, even with American Ships equipped with AEGIS.the USS Vincennes, shot down an Iranian Airliner. They mistook it for an F-14 they claimed. I don't know where the Iranians got the parts to get them flight-worthy at the time.

Firing an Exocet, or a Harpoon will probably give a very small percentage chance of it hitting it's target. A modern warship isn't defenseless with their targeting systems, Missile defense, and Phalanx which just fires a wall of metal in front of the missile.

But if there are 4 or 5 missiles fired, from different surface combatants, or from the air, then the odds increase substantially.

Now imagine a battle group of 5, 10, 15 or 30 ships surrounding an Aircraft carrier. Let's most of these ships are equipped with AEGIS. Chances of an Exocet or anything hitting them is pretty remote.

The same principle applies when there are a group of let's say 6 Turkish Frigates or 6 Greek Frigates. Each ship has its defenses and tracking systems.

The advantage the Exocet has is that it travels at a high speed and just skims the surface of the water before hitting the ship below the waterline. The missile defense on the ship are great for missiles coming in from an altitude with radar tracking, but less effective against low flying missiles.