Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

I am smelling the hypocrisy all the way from OZ on this one.

Actually Erol, Cyprus is not in "peace", just at peace at the moment, because the war with Turkey is not over and it is only a "cease fire", hence the "Green Line". Cyprus will be in peace once a settlement has been reached in one form or the other, therefore, those who were refugees since the 60's and are still in Cyprus, they are still refugees today.

The stench of hypocrisy remains.

Firstly such people (and their subsequent children via male line in perpetuity) were not refugees after 1974, they were, by all international legal and technical definition 'internally displaced people'. They were not refugees in 74 and they are not today either. The insistence that they are refugees, by RoC and individuals like yourself, was, is and remains a political choice that is itself a form of weaponizing these peoples suffering.

Secondly if Cyprus is not 'at peace' today because she is still 'at war' with Turkey, then neither is Turkey 'at peace' and thus the idea that people fleeing war and persecution in Syria (and Afghanistan and Iraq and countless other places) must stay and seek asylum in Turkey because it is a 'safe place' for them to do so is undermined. All you are doing here Kiks is saying when it suits the RoC, then Turkey is 'at war' with the RoC but when it does not suit then Turkey is a 'peaceful safe haven' in which refugees should first seek asylum.

Getting a whiff of the hypocrisy that surrounds issues of migration and asylum yet from pretty much everyone ?

[Kikapu]

I am smelling the hypocrisy all the way from OZ on this one.

Actually Erol, Cyprus is not in "peace", just at peace at the moment, because the war with Turkey is not over and it is only a "cease fire", hence the "Green Line". Cyprus will be in peace once a settlement has been reached in one form or the other, therefore, those who were refugees since the 60's and are still in Cyprus, they are still refugees today.

The stench of hypocrisy remains.

Firstly such people (and their subsequent children via male line in perpetuity) were not refugees after 1974, they were, by all international legal and technical definition 'internally displaced people'. They were not refugees in 74 and they are not today either. The insistence that they are refugees, by RoC and individuals like yourself, was, is and remains a political choice that is itself a form of weaponizing these peoples suffering.

Secondly if Cyprus is not 'at peace' today because she is still 'at war' with Turkey, then neither is Turkey 'at peace' and thus the idea that people fleeing war and persecution in Syria (and Afghanistan and Iraq and countless other places) must stay and seek asylum in Turkey because it is a 'safe place' for them to do so is undermined. All you are doing here Kiks is saying when it suits the RoC, then Turkey is 'at war' with the RoC but when it does not suit then Turkey is a 'peaceful safe haven' in which refugees should first seek asylum.

Getting a whiff of the hypocrisy that surrounds issues of migration and asylum yet from pretty much everyone ?

Calling a Rose by another name, it is still a Rose.......... Refugees/Internally displaced people!

I wasn't aware that Turkey has been invaded lately by foreign armies and that she was at war at home!

[erolz66]

No one said these people were living in luxury in their own country or even in Turkey, but they are not in danger of being harmed by their governments now that they are in Turkey, other than some crazy Turkish police officer threatening these migrants with a pistol to get off the bus to cross into Greece illegally, then get beaten up if they try to get back into Turkey, after they have gotten beaten up trying to enter Greece illegally.

Why not apply the same to those you DO recognise as 'refugees' ? Are the internally displaced GC from 74 in danger of being harmed by their governments now that they are in the RoC ? GC you consider are 'legitimate refugees' but Syrians on the border with Greece, whose homes and lives have been destroyed by war that is going on even as we speak, not 45 years ago, are not legitimate refugees - according to you and my understanding of what you are saying. Smelling it yet kiks ?

[erolz66]

Calling a Rose by another name, it is still a Rose.......... Refugees/Internally displaced people!

I am not the one calling a rose by some other name. You and the RoC are the ones doing that for over 45 years now and there is a REASON why you prefer to call a rose by some other name and that reason is nothing to do with international legal definitions and everything to do with politics and the politics of using peoples suffering as a political tool. Weaponizing their suffering in essence imo.

[erolz66]

If Turkey has a Customs Union with the EU, then it will be the only country in the EU as EVERYONE will want out.

Your ignorance and willingness to display it remains as remarkable as ever. Turkey has been in a customs union with the EU for 25 years, longer than the RoC has been a member of the EU. The RoC wanted in to the EU knowing that the EU was already in a customs union with Turkey and had been for nearly a decade before the RoC joined. Plonker.

[Kikapu]

No one said these people were living in luxury in their own country or even in Turkey, but they are not in danger of being harmed by their governments now that they are in Turkey, other than some crazy Turkish police officer threatening these migrants with a pistol to get off the bus to cross into Greece illegally, then get beaten up if they try to get back into Turkey, after they have gotten beaten up trying to enter Greece illegally.

Why not apply the same to those you DO recognise as 'refugees' ? Are the internally displaced GC from 74 in danger of being harmed by their governments now that they are in the RoC ? GC you consider are 'legitimate refugees' but Syrians on the border with Greece, whose homes and lives have been destroyed by war that is going on even as we speak, not 45 years ago, are not legitimate refugees - according to you and my understanding of what you are saying. Smelling it yet kiks ?

Yes, Syrians in Turkey and Jordan who have escaped the war in Syria are refugees and should return home once the war is over. Lets not forget, that Turkey has invited/accepted these people as refugees from Syria which then that's where they should remain until the war in Syria is over. Turkey does not have the right then to push these people onto other countries just because Turkey did not get the results it was hoping for in Syria. Of course Turkey can ask for financial assistance from other countries to help with the burden, especially from countries who have help destroy Syria, like the USA, Iran, Russia and Turkey herself. Why hasn't Turkey chartered cruise ships and send these refugees to the USA, Russia and Iran? Have these countries even paid anything as much as EU has paid Turkey? No they have not. But you have refugees in Turkey and migrants from other countries who are now forced by Turkey to illegally cross into the EU. These people must go through proper channels in Turkey to have their cases heard from any of the embassies they wish to apply for in Turkey. Again, the present situation on the Greece/Turkish border is not about the political asylum seekers, but what Erdogan aims to get from the EU through his blackmailing weaponizing of these poor people. Who is the more evil here, Erdogan or Greece?

[Kikapu]

By the way, I stated that all those who had to move since the 60's and are still living in Cyprus are still refugees, which include the TCs and the GCs. I and my family of 9 and neighbours had to move from from Kücük Kaymakli in Nicosia area at the barrel of a gun in 1963's "bloody Christmas" and held as prisoners by the GCs/Greeks at the age of 8. I remember our eviction that day very clearly from our home and village minute by minute, and if I had remained in Cyprus until today and was never allowed to return back to our home and Kücük Kaymakli, then yes, I would consider myself as a refugee in my own country, just as the Palestinians still do under the occupation of Israel which has been going on much longer than my personal situation.

You do consider the Palestinians who have been forced to move and under occupation by Israel as refugees in their own country, don't you Erol?

[erolz66]

Yes, Syrians in Turkey and Jordan who have escaped the war in Syria are refugees and should return home once the war is over.

So do you disagree with the claim that 'these people are not refugees because they passed through Turkey' or not Kiks ?

Lets not forget, that Turkey has invited/accepted these people as refugees from Syria which then that's where they should remain until the war in Syria is over.

No do not forget that Turkey has taken in 3.7 million refugees. Which is why the idea that allowing Russia and Assad to create a million + more new refugees that will end up on the border with Turkey or in Turkey is not acceptable to it. I do not support it's chosen 'solution' either but I do recognise the hypocrisy of those condemning it for its actions that seek to stop the creation of more refugees.

Turkey does not have the right then to push these people onto other countries just because Turkey did not get the results it was hoping for in Syria.

Where have I ever said Turkey has such a right ? No where is the answer.

But you have refugees in Turkey and migrants from other countries who are now forced by Turkey to illegally cross into the EU.

Turkey is not (yet) forcing those refugees already in Turkey to the boarders. They announced that the border was open (not true), that they would not prevent people going to the border with Greece anymore as they had been doing previously and provided some transport for some of those who chose to go based on this false information. Yes they then have been stopping such people from returning back to Turkey once they discovered the border was not open but that is not the same thing as your claim that they have to date 'forced refugees in Turkey to try and illegally cross in to the EU'.

Again, the present situation on the Greece/Turkish border is not about the political asylum seekers, but what Erdogan aims to get from the EU through his blackmailing weaponizing of these poor people. Who is the more evil here, Erdogan or Greece?

For Erdogan the issue is not about asylum seekers but for those 10s of millions of ordinary people who's lives have been destroyed by the war in Syria, who have become displaced people multiple times within Syria with no end in sight and have resorting to trying to leave Syria entirely and who have been used as political footballs by ALL powers involved, not just Turkey, it damn well is about asylum. On this issue I stand with them and not Erdogan. All I see from your post is you standing with Erdogan in thinking and claiming this is nothing to do with asylum.

[erolz66]

You do consider the Palestinians who have been forced to move and under occupation by Israel as refugees in their own country, don't you Erol?

I consider them victims of the power games of states and their hypocrisy. I consider them a people under occupation with is not the same as being a refugee. Should they flee Palestine on the basis that as it is under occupation of a foreign power and not a safe place for them, then yes I would recognise them as legitimate refugees that should be afforded the rights granted to such people under international law by all countries that are signatories to such international law.

[Kikapu]

Yes, Erdogan forces these migrants and refugees to relocate through misinformation, coercion and direct physical force, then call it “voluntarily”. Did Erdogan not physically force many Syrians refugees to leave Istanbul and back to their camps because the Turks were complaining? They were then forced to return back to Syria to areas which Turkey claimed to be liberated from the YPG, but only selected Syrians were forced back into those areas, no doubt Sunni Muslim. How many times the Turkish government told us that these Syrians were volunteering to return back, which tells me they weee forced to return.

Turkey is critical of Greece refusing to allow these migrants to cross into the EU illegally when their lives are not threatened in Turkey and yet, Turkey is refusing to allow Syrians trying to escape the war in Idlib at it’s border, regardless how many Syrians are already in Turkey. Is this not the height of hypocrisy by Turkey. When the Syrian refugees were a trump card for Erdogan all was well so that he can have the backing of these people for Turkey to have a greater say in Syria’s political future, but now that is not the case any longer and Russia and Syrian government are more and more in control of Syria’s political future, Erdogan turns on the refugees in Turkey and use them to blackmail the EU.