Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Even if this happened, most of these migrants wouldn't stop trying to illegally come to Europe. Greece and Europe has every right to prevent mass illegal migration.

Of course they would. The fact that 10s of millions were not doing so BEFORE the war and only started doing so AFTER is no indication that war has been the primary cause. Nor no doubt do images like those in this link carry much weight with you either I guess ?

https://www.boredpanda.com/before-after ... gn=organic

If you turn a place that is not a war zone in to a war zone you create refugees. That seems pretty obvious to me. Can you show any place that went from not a war zone to war zone that did NOT result in creating refugees that would not be refugees other than for this singular reason ? Every war creates refugees.

What are you on?

it is obvious that war will create refugees, genuine refugees can seek assylem through legal and more appropriate channels.

But you are just using the word refugee to be a catchall for everyone migrating to and using violent means to force their way through Europe.

You can not call yourself a refugee when you are leaving a country that is in peace. In this instance, they are fleeing Turkey, not Syria. Therefore, Turkey is responsible to look after their welfare, not Greece.

[erolz66]

You can not call yourself a refugee when you are leaving a country that is in peace.

yet you can call yourself one if you are staying in your own country that is at peace because you were displaced within that country 45 years ago, or your father was so displaced, or your grandfather was so displaced, or your great grandfather ?

So on the one hand Turkey is a dictatorship, abuser of human rights, run by an egotistical madman with no regard for legality and international laws and rules. Yet on the other hand, when it suits, it is a free democratic nation at peace with itself and others and a legitimate safe country in which asylum can be sought by those fleeing war elsewhere.

I am smelling the hypocrisy all the way from OZ on this one.

[Paphitis]

You can not call yourself a refugee when you are leaving a country that is in peace.

yet you can call yourself one if you are staying in your own country that is at peace because you were displaced within that country 45 years ago, or your father was so displaced, or your grandfather was so displaced, or your great grandfather ?

So on the one hand Turkey is a dictatorship, abuser of human rights, run by an egotistical madman with no regard for legality and international laws and rules. Yet on the other hand, when it suits, it is a free democratic nation at peace with itself and others and a legitimate safe country in which asylum can be sought by those fleeing war elsewhere.

I am smelling the hypocrisy all the way from OZ on this one.

You need to look at the indention of refugee.

And no, any country would laugh at me if I walked in and asked for asylum from Australia. At least though, I would have obeyed all the laws by going through official channels and allow that country to vet me appropriately if I wanted to migrate there.

Regardless of what you may think, Greece is NOT obligated to take any illegal immigrants and only 4% of them are Syrian.

[erolz66]

You can not call yourself a refugee when you are leaving a country that is in peace.

yet you can call yourself one if you are staying in your own country that is at peace because you were displaced within that country 45 years ago, or your father was so displaced, or your grandfather was so displaced, or your great grandfather ?

So on the one hand Turkey is a dictatorship, abuser of human rights, run by an egotistical madman with no regard for legality and international laws and rules. Yet on the other hand, when it suits, it is a free democratic nation at peace with itself and others and a legitimate safe country in which asylum can be sought by those fleeing war elsewhere.

I am smelling the hypocrisy all the way from OZ on this one.

You need to look at the indention of refugee.

And no, any country would laugh at me if I walked in and asked for asylum from Australia. At least though, I would have obeyed all the laws by going through official channels and allow that country to vet me appropriately if I wanted to migrate there.

Regardless of what you may think, Greece is NOT obligated to take any illegal immigrants and only 4% of them are Syrian.

I assume you mean intention and not indention ? You said you can not call yourself a refugee if you have passed through a 'safe' country. Yet you personally yourself DO call GC internally displaced in 1974 'refugees'. AND their children born after 74. And their children's children. You do it. You have done it here on this forum countless times. You will do it again in the future when it suits you. Smelling the hypocrisy yet ?

You say only '4%' of 'them' are Syrian yet you provide no evidence to support this. Greece is not obliged to take any illegal immigrant. It is obliged under international law, the Geneva convention (another thing that you refer to much when it suits and ignore when it does not), to allow people to apply for asylum. Yet Greece has announced it is 'suspending' all asylum applications for a month, for which there is no legal provision to do within the Geneva convention or anywhere else. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syri ... SKBN20P2BH

Nothing to say on your 'two opposing portraits of Turkey' based on which most suits you at any given time or situation ? No surprise there then.

The hypocrisy surrounding immigration, refugees and asylum is RANK. Yes Erdogan is weaponizing refugees but he is hardly alone in doing this. You do it when you claim that only 4% of those on the border with Greece today are Syrian without any evidence (and all that matters is what % are genuine refugees). Your idol Trump has built his entire run for the presidency on doing it, past and future. The EU has been doing it for years. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ee-scandal

[Paphitis]

You can not call yourself a refugee when you are leaving a country that is in peace.

yet you can call yourself one if you are staying in your own country that is at peace because you were displaced within that country 45 years ago, or your father was so displaced, or your grandfather was so displaced, or your great grandfather ?

So on the one hand Turkey is a dictatorship, abuser of human rights, run by an egotistical madman with no regard for legality and international laws and rules. Yet on the other hand, when it suits, it is a free democratic nation at peace with itself and others and a legitimate safe country in which asylum can be sought by those fleeing war elsewhere.

I am smelling the hypocrisy all the way from OZ on this one.

You need to look at the indention of refugee.

And no, any country would laugh at me if I walked in and asked for asylum from Australia. At least though, I would have obeyed all the laws by going through official channels and allow that country to vet me appropriately if I wanted to migrate there.

Regardless of what you may think, Greece is NOT obligated to take any illegal immigrants and only 4% of them are Syrian.

I assume you mean intention and not indention ? You said you can not call yourself a refugee if you have passed through a 'safe' country. Yet you personally yourself DO call GC internally displaced in 1974 'refugees'. AND their children born after 74. And their children's children. You do it. You have done it here on this forum countless times. You will do it again in the future when it suits you. Smelling the hypocrisy yet ?

You say only '4%' of 'them' are Syrian yet you provide no evidence to support this. Greece is not obliged to take any illegal immigrant. It is obliged under international law, the Geneva convention (another thing that you refer to much when it suits and ignore when it does not), to allow people to apply for asylum. Yet Greece has announced it is 'suspending' all asylum applications for a month, for which there is no legal provision to do within the Geneva convention or anywhere else. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syri ... SKBN20P2BH

Nothing to say on your 'two opposing portraits of Turkey' based on which most suits you at any given time or situation ? No surprise there then.

The hypocrisy surrounding immigration, refugees and asylum is RANK. Yes Erdogan is weaponizing refugees but he is hardly alone in doing this. You do it when you claim that only 4% of those on the border with Greece today are Syrian without any evidence (and all that matters is what % are genuine refugees). Your idol Trump has built his entire run for the presidency on doing it, past and future. The EU has been doing it for years. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... ee-scandal

You are damn right the GC refugees are internally displaced and they meat all the criteria of a displaced person as well.

And yet, I don't know a single one of them who has asked for asylum from the RoC.

Some have migrated through legal means to the UK, Australia, Canada and USA and pose no risk to those countries at all, and generally live as law abiding citizens in their adopted country and show the utmost respect, and contribute constructively to their chosen homeland.

never in my life have I seen a GC refugee storm any borders, light fires, throw rocks at security forces or throw Molotov cocktails.

The evidence I provide from statistics are from the Greek Border Forces from the arrests they have made thus far. Even if all of them were Syrian (and they aren't), Greece is under no obligation to allow this Security Threat to pass and be unleashed upon their people.

Great move by Mitsotakis in suspending all asylum requests. Finally, the EU has learned their lesson since they are backing Greece and 5 countries have sent security forces to help Greece out. Greece has the support of every EU member State, plus the civilized world including Trump. You don't like it do you? Well tough! Greece has an obligation to look after its own problems and its own citizens and to not yield to this provocation at their expense.

Build the wall! The cost is worth it.

Even Finland has given Greece a helping hand.

[erolz66]

You are damn right the GC refugees are internally displaced and they meat all the criteria of a displaced person as well.

So let me get this straight. If you were displaced as a GC in 1974, 45 years ago, you can legitimately call yourself today a refugee and if you are male, so can your children and your male children's children and so on and get benefits for such a 'refugee' status. Yet if you are today a Syrian who fled war in Syria that is still going on standing at the border between Turkey and Greece you can not call yourself a refugee because you passed through Turkey to get to that border.

The evidence I provide from statistics are from the Greek Border Forces from the arrests they have made thus far.

So let me get this straight as well. Because the Greek Border Forces, hardly an impartial source but anyway, say of those it has arrested at the border only 4% are Syrian, that therefore means that must be the % of Syrians of the 10s of thousands who are at the border and have NOT been arrested ? Saying 4% of those arrested at the border are Syrian is not the same thing as saying only 4% of all the people at the border are Syrian.

Greece is under no obligation to allow this Security Threat to pass and be unleashed upon their people.

It is under an obligation to abide by legal treaties it has signed and ratified. There is no legal mechanism by which a state that is signatory to these treaties can simply unilaterally declare its obligations 'suspended' for any reason what so ever. That is the law but as ever the law is only sacrosanct for you when it gives you what you want. When it does not is can just be ignored with impunity apparently.

Great move by Mitsotakis in suspending all asylum requests. Finally, the EU has learned their lesson since they are backing Greece and 5 countries have sent security forces to help Greece out. Greece has the support of every EU member State, plus the civilized world including Trump. You don't like it do you? Well tough! Greece has an obligation to look after its own problems and its own citizens and to not yield to this provocation at their expense.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... -to-asylum

The EU is not so fond of Greece's blatant disregard for international law. They prefer such actions by themselves to be at least partially 'hidden' by hiring, training, supplying and funding a 'Libyan coast guard' made up itself of many former people smugglers and paying THEM to blatantly disregard international law on the EU's behalf. You are out of date re your Finish boat. It was dispatched to help frontex in 2017. Today frontex does not use boats in the Mediterranean because that places a legal responsibility on them to not let migrants in boats drown or return them to unsafe countries like Libya. So instead they use drones and aircraft to monitor for such immigrants in boats and then feed the information to the 'Libyan coast guard' that they also set up equip and fund and is made up of many former people smugglers, so they can pick up (or let drown) such migrants and take them to Libya, or anywhere really other than an EU country. That is the European way of avoiding your international legal obligations and Greece has upset quite a few powers within the EU with it's simple repudiation of its legal obligation.

[Paphitis]

[Kikapu]

You can not call yourself a refugee when you are leaving a country that is in peace.

yet you can call yourself one if you are staying in your own country that is at peace because you were displaced within that country 45 years ago, or your father was so displaced, or your grandfather was so displaced, or your great grandfather ?

So on the one hand Turkey is a dictatorship, abuser of human rights, run by an egotistical madman with no regard for legality and international laws and rules. Yet on the other hand, when it suits, it is a free democratic nation at peace with itself and others and a legitimate safe country in which asylum can be sought by those fleeing war elsewhere.

I am smelling the hypocrisy all the way from OZ on this one.

Actually Erol, Cyprus is not in "peace", just at peace at the moment, because the war with Turkey is not over and it is only a "cease fire", hence the "Green Line". Cyprus will be in peace once a settlement has been reached in one form or the other, therefore, those who were refugees since the 60's and are still in Cyprus, they are still refugees today.

[Kikapu]

This is not about asylum seeking, Erol.

This is all about Erdogan weaponizing these people whom Turkey had allowed for them to come into Turkey to cause problems for the EU just so to blackmail the EU into supporting his illegal activities in Syria.

Of course it is about asylum. Look at the pictures of places like allepo. Tell me that if you lived there you would not flee such conditions for your and your loved ones safety ? Tell me you wouls simply apply at a embassy for asylum in another country and just wait there until you get a reply.

Yes Turkey is weaponizing these people and that is disgraceful. But the EU (UK, US) has no moral high ground here either. I condemn both (all). Not just those I 'want' to condemn

No one said these people were living in luxury in their own country or even in Turkey, but they are not in danger of being harmed by their governments now that they are in Turkey, other than some crazy Turkish police officer threatening these migrants with a pistol to get off the bus to cross into Greece illegally, then get beaten up if they try to get back into Turkey, after they have gotten beaten up trying to enter Greece illegally.

Lets look at what Erdogan is looking for from the EU in his blackmailing attempt, which has hardly any benefit to the migrants in Turkey, other than the money the EU distributes to help the migrants in Turkey. Even with this, Turkey wants the money from the EU to go into it's general fund so that Turkey can use the money anyway they want, which the EU won't do. So, how does it help the migrants in Turkey when Erdogan wants an upgraded Customs Union, visa free access to Turks in the EU, open EU accession chapters and support Turkey's illegal actions in Syria and most probably in Libya also now? So how does these conditions what Erdogan wants helps the migrants? It does not, so Erdogan is weaponizing these for people for his own benefit.

[Paphitis]

Cyprus was smart to not join Shengen.

Well done Cyprus. It's obligated to join and yet it has not joined. Cyprus is in a select group of EU snobs along with the UK. It would have taken huge gohones to do that and looks like Cyprus has the goods.

If only we stayed out of the Eurozone and kept the Cyprus Pound.

If Turkey has a Customs Union with the EU, then it will be the only country in the EU as EVERYONE will want out.