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Greece/Turkey border clashes

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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby erolz66 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:14 pm

Maximus wrote:What are you on?

it is obvious that war will create refugees, genuine refugees can seek assylem through legal and more appropriate channels.

But you are just using the word refugee to be a catchall for everyone migrating to and using violent means to force their way through Europe.


War creates refugees, we are agreed on that at least. War in Syria has created refugees. 10's of millions of them. They are somewhere. You want to believe that none of them or almost none of them are at Greece's boarder, that these people are not refugees, that they are 95% 'economic migrants', who have a safe home and country to live in but just want to move to a better place. That does not appear credible to me and seems more a function of what you would like to believe ?

As for violent means, these people are not using tear gas to get in to Europe. They are not using guns, war planes, cruise missiles. It is Turkey and Russia and UK and US and France and many other EU nations directly or indirectly that used and are using such means both to cause the destruction in Syria that created the refugees and also to either try and keep them out of a country or push them from one country to another. These people are not the 'criminals', they are the victims imo.
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby Maximus » Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:48 pm

erolz66 wrote:
War creates refugees, we are agreed on that at least. War in Syria has created refugees. 10's of millions of them. They are somewhere. You want to believe that none of them or almost none of them are at Greece's boarder, that these people are not refugees, that they are 95% 'economic migrants', who have a safe home and country to live in but just want to move to a better place. That does not appear credible to me and seems more a function of what you would like to believe ?


:lol:

Its not credible to label them all as refugees.

I know most of them are not refugees.

Most people can see and hear the media recordings and have come to the same conclusion.

Administrators processing applications have also come up with the statistics.

As for violent means, these people are not using tear gas to get in to Europe.


:lol:

Yes they are, given to them by Turkish authorities, as well as petrol bombs and slings throwing rocks.

They are not using guns, war planes, cruise missiles.


No country should be using those means any more. They should just send their populations, throw away all forms of ID and say they are refugees. They can colonize the place and get welfare from the natives without a shot being fired. People like you will help them on other peoples dime. You are so naive.

:lol:

It is Turkey and Russia and UK and US and France and many other EU nations directly or indirectly that used and are using such means both to cause the destruction in Syria that created the refugees and also to either try and keep them out of a country or push them from one country to another. These people are not the 'criminals', they are the victims imo.


There is a distinction between refugees and illegal economic migration.

But this is not about that.

This is about Turkey weaponizing people to blackmail Europe and using force to block them from returning from the border.... :roll:

The EU is not obliged to accept them
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby erolz66 » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:11 pm

Maximus wrote:Its not credible to label them all as refugees.


I dont. I am not the one chucking around % and making claims willy nilly.

Maximus wrote:I know most of them are not refugees.


See the difference ? I am not saying I know all of them are genuine refugees. I am just saying that I have not seen any credible evidence that would support the claim that 95% of them are just economic migrants and nothing to do with the war in Syria and having their homes turned in to a war site. It is not credible to me. It does not add up. There has been a war in Syria. Millions of refugees have been created but 95% of those on the Greek boarder today are not these people ? Like I say , for me, does not add up.

Maximus wrote:Most people can see and hear the media recordings and have come to the same conclusion.


Ahh the old 'most people know' line lol. Always a red flag for me. I have seen media reports and I have not come to that conclusion. Clearly you have but by what 'right' do you speak for what most other people think ?

Maximus wrote:Administrators processing applications have also come up with the statistics.


Source ?

Maximus wrote:Yes they are, given to them by Turkish authorities, as well as petrol bombs and slings throwing rocks.


Source ? If there is credible evidence that Turkey has provided refugees on Greek boarder with tear gas or petrol bombs I have yet to see it ?

Maximus wrote:This is about Turkey weaponizing people to blackmail Europe and using force to block them from returning from the border.... :roll:

The EU is not obliged to accept them


Yes Turkey is weaponizing them but she is hardly alone imo.
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby Maximus » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:32 pm

Erolz,

I will have to search and dig up those statistics and the other things you have requested

but about 5% are Syrian, 5% are Turkish, the rest are from Africa, Pakistan, Iran, Bangladesh, Afghanistan.

You should also watch some videos on Youtube.

The reporter says one thing but you see something else. They say Syrian refugees, and there are loads of Africans and Pakistanis in the background. They say lots of women and children but they are all young men throwing rocks :lol:

Then you should read the comments to find out and get an idea about what most people think. :lol:

The media have bombarded people with conflicting messages and lies for years, but some people are still asleep or worse, believe them.
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby Maximus » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:40 pm

Here erolz,

Your "refugees" holding children over smoking fires to make themselves and babies cry for the cameras.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOKo-rnd2mI
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby Maximus » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:44 pm

is this credible enough for you ?

Migrants at Turkish border throw petrol bombs at Greek police
https://ahvalnews.com/refugee-crisis/mi ... eek-police

Tear gas fired from Turksih side of the border, Turkish authorities also gave the migrants teargas on the first day. was shown on Euronews....
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-new ... -1.8634633
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby Maximus » Thu Mar 12, 2020 8:59 pm

Read this, Fresh off the press.

The EU is offering 2000 euros to migrants in Greek 'refugee' camps to go back to their home countries...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51859007

What does this tell you about the "refugees"?

There are lots of opportunists, hijacking the Syrian war that are not eligible for refugee status..

:roll:

Thats probably more cost effective than giving the money to Erdogan.
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby repulsewarrior » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:26 am

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/03/ ... 53452.html

...although the article s relevant, i strongly recommend watching the video, which is included,

The Great Population Exchange between Turkey and Greece

...i ask myself, have we learned anything since then?
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby Paphitis » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:28 am

erolz66 wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Yep, I have seen the messages and have been following them attentively.


Fuck me, you have personally read and counted up millions upon millions of such messages have you ? Where do you find the time to anything else :lol:

Or perhaps the reality is clsoer to you have personaly seen a few dozen such messages and have converted that in to a 'fact' of 'millions upon millions' ? :roll:

Paphitis wrote:No I do not believe these are genuine asylum seekers ...


When your home town looks like this

allepo.jpg


I would say you have a genuine case to seek asylum. You do not agree ?


Gee whiz, I never thought Turkey was like that!

No wonder they want to leave Turkey.

Greece won't let them in now. So deary oh dear! Report them to the UN and take them to court. But there is NOTHING Turkey or the UN can do about it!

I never realized Greece was like that denying poor refugees asylum from Turkey.
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Re: Greece/Turkey border clashes

Postby Paphitis » Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:29 am

erolz66 wrote:
Paphitis wrote:
erolz66 wrote:
Paphitis wrote:Look back though Erdogan's history and tell me where he has ever shown any good will towards Greece or Cyprus - 2 EU States.


There are many but you ask for any example so here is one.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/231034/arti ... ting-fires


Tell him to shove his assistance up where the sun don't shine.

We no longer have that imbecile Tsipras in Government. We have Mitsotakis with extra large balls!


You first ask 'Look back though Erdogan's history and tell me where he has ever shown any good will towards Greece ' and when you are shown one such example your response is

Paphitis wrote:Tell him to shove his assistance up where the sun don't shine.


:?


You heard me. Tell that Sultan of yours to shove it!

He is on the nose with just about every country in the world including the USA.
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