Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

Yep, I have seen the messages and have been following them attentively.

Fuck me, you have personally read and counted up millions upon millions of such messages have you ? Where do you find the time to anything else

Or perhaps the reality is clsoer to you have personaly seen a few dozen such messages and have converted that in to a 'fact' of 'millions upon millions' ?

No I do not believe these are genuine asylum seekers ...

When your home town looks like this

allepo.jpg

I would say you have a genuine case to seek asylum. You do not agree ?

[erolz66]

Look back though Erdogan's history and tell me where he has ever shown any good will towards Greece or Cyprus - 2 EU States.

There are many but you ask for any example so here is one.

http://www.ekathimerini.com/231034/arti ... ting-fires

Tell him to shove his assistance up where the sun don't shine.

We no longer have that imbecile Tsipras in Government. We have Mitsotakis with extra large balls!

You first ask 'Look back though Erdogan's history and tell me where he has ever shown any good will towards Greece ' and when you are shown one such example your response is

Tell him to shove his assistance up where the sun don't shine.

[erolz66]

These are not refugees, they are illegal economic migrants in the majority trying to enter countries using force.

Seriously Max, look at the pictures of what towns and cities in Syria look like and tell me that 10's of millions fleeing such conditions are not refugees but are economic migrants ? Of course not all of those seeking entry to the EU are refugees but the idea that only 5% of them makes no sense to me. If 95% of those trying to get in to Europe are not refugees then where ARE the actual millions of genuine refugees then ? Do you believe that 95% are just economic migrant chancers because that suits you or because you have serious credible evidence ?

Maybe about 5% of them are refugees (as it has been discovered after they are detained or "rescued"). However they are not seeking asylum through the legitimate and correct channels.

Furthermore Europe is not obliged to take everyone. There are 190 countries in this world and about a third of them are neighbors and Muslim countries. What to say about those and their principles?

Look at the numbers. I have shown you them before. The majority of those made refugees by the war in Syria HAVE been taken in, internally and to neighbouring countries, at per captia ratios that are orders of magnitude higher than those taken in by the EU.

What is the overall and comprehensive solution in your opinion Erolz?

If you want to stop people fleeing their homes because they have become war zones and some of them turning up at your own borders as a result seeking asylum, then perhaps not using military force to impose your will on others and encouraging and supporting and participating in such wars would be a better approach than doing such things and then just tear gassing refugees that arrive at your boarders.

Welcome to the conversation.

Doubt it will last long. When milti posted his 'human stupidity' post I was tempted to put 'participation on a forum like this one' near the top. Yet here I am

[erolz66]

This is not about asylum seeking, Erol.

This is all about Erdogan weaponizing these people whom Turkey had allowed for them to come into Turkey to cause problems for the EU just so to blackmail the EU into supporting his illegal activities in Syria.

Of course it is about asylum. Look at the pictures of places like allepo. Tell me that if you lived there you would not flee such conditions for your and your loved ones safety ? Tell me you wouls simply apply at a embassy for asylum in another country and just wait there until you get a reply.

Yes Turkey is weaponizing these people and that is disgraceful. But the EU (UK, US) has no moral high ground here either. I condemn both (all). Not just those I 'want' to condemn

[Maximus]

Seriously Max, look at the pictures of what towns and cities in Syria look like and tell me that 10's of millions fleeing such conditions are not refugees but are economic migrants ? Of course not all of those seeking entry to the EU are refugees but the idea that only 5% of them makes no sense to me. If 95% of those trying to get in to Europe are not refugees then where ARE the actual millions of genuine refugees then ? Do you believe that 95% are just economic migrant chancers because that suits you or because you have serious credible evidence ?

People have to process them and their applications and they are reporting it.

The picture you have posted as example is from, I presume Syria? Syrians at Greece's border make up about 5% of the caravan.

Maybe about 5% of them are refugees, from Syria (as it has been discovered after they are detained or "rescued").

Look at the numbers. I have shown you them before. The majority of those made refugees by the war in Syria HAVE been taken in, internally and to neighbouring countries, at per captia ratios that are orders of magnitude higher than those taken in by the EU.

I haven't see that but the EU has taken in over a million already in 2015.

I know, you are going to say, But turkey has taken 4 million.

Keep reading.

What is the overall and comprehensive solution in your opinion Erolz?

If you want to stop people fleeing their homes because they have become war zones and some of them turning up at your own borders as a result seeking asylum, then perhaps not using military force to impose your will on others and encouraging and supporting and participating in such wars would be a better approach than doing such things and then just tear gassing refugees that arrive at your boarders.

Welcome to the conversation.

I can agree with that but The EU consist of 27 member states that in the most part had nothing to do with bombing their countries.

Erdogan and Davutoglue are largely responsible for the destruction of Syria, then it is only right that Turkey looks after them. But it was obvious that they were going to be used for political propaganda and blackmail from a long time ago.

[Maximus]

This is not about asylum seeking, Erol.

This is all about Erdogan weaponizing these people whom Turkey had allowed for them to come into Turkey to cause problems for the EU just so to blackmail the EU into supporting his illegal activities in Syria.

Of course it is about asylum. Look at the pictures of places like allepo. Tell me that if you lived there you would not flee such conditions for your and your loved ones safety ? Tell me you wouls simply apply at a embassy for asylum in another country and just wait there until you get a reply.

Yes Turkey is weaponizing these people and that is disgraceful. But the EU (UK, US) has no moral high ground here either. I condemn both (all). Not just those I 'want' to condemn

Yes, that is what you are supposed to do. That is what I would do. There is no way I would be joining such caravans....

You should go to a neighboring, and nearest safe country and apply for assylem. Then you can go through safe ports to whatever country's can and are willing to accept you until it is safe to return.

What you are not supposed to do is migrate through many countries like an organized invasion and get into a conflicts with those countries authorities. You are not supposed to pay thousands to people smugglers and human traffickers.

But this is not about Assylem as Kiks has said....

[erolz66]

Erdogan and Davutoglue are largely responsible for the destruction of Syria, then it is only right that Turkey looks after them. But it was obvious that they were going to be used for political propaganda and blackmail from a long time ago.

That's easy then.

No need to think about US, UK, France, Russia and others including Assad who have all been happy to play their part in creating the refugees by trying to use their military power to gain advantage for themselves over others. No Turkey caused all the problems. Yep nice and easy.

[Maximus]

Erdogan and Davutoglue are largely responsible for the destruction of Syria, then it is only right that Turkey looks after them. But it was obvious that they were going to be used for political propaganda and blackmail from a long time ago.

That's easy then.

No need to think about US, UK, France, Russia and others including Assad who have all been happy to play their part in creating the refugees by trying to use their military power to gain advantage for themselves over others. No Turkey caused all the problems. Yep nice and easy.

I said Turkey is largely responsible,

Turkey should therefor take care of most of these refugees.

With that being said, the Eu is also contributing to their welfare in Turkey as well as taking in over a million of them.

Turkey needs to get out of Syria and let Russia and Assad finish clearing out idlib so these people can return. Turkey's (recent) invasion created another million people fleeing the area.

Even if this happened, most of these migrants wouldn't stop trying to illegally come to Europe. Greece and Europe has every right to prevent mass illegal migration.

Turkey has no right using these people and doing what she is doing at the Greek border.

[erolz66]

Even if this happened, most of these migrants wouldn't stop trying to illegally come to Europe. Greece and Europe has every right to prevent mass illegal migration.

Of course they would. The fact that 10s of millions were not doing so BEFORE the war and only started doing so AFTER is no indication that war has been the primary cause. Nor no doubt do images like those in this link carry much weight with you either I guess ?

https://www.boredpanda.com/before-after ... gn=organic

If you turn a place that is not a war zone in to a war zone you create refugees. That seems pretty obvious to me. Can you show any place that went from not a war zone to war zone that did NOT result in creating refugees that would not be refugees other than for this singular reason ? Every war creates refugees.

[Maximus]

Even if this happened, most of these migrants wouldn't stop trying to illegally come to Europe. Greece and Europe has every right to prevent mass illegal migration.

Of course they would. The fact that 10s of millions were not doing so BEFORE the war and only started doing so AFTER is no indication that war has been the primary cause. Nor no doubt do images like those in this link carry much weight with you either I guess ?

https://www.boredpanda.com/before-after ... gn=organic

If you turn a place that is not a war zone in to a war zone you create refugees. That seems pretty obvious to me. Can you show any place that went from not a war zone to war zone that did NOT result in creating refugees that would not be refugees other than for this singular reason ? Every war creates refugees.

What are you on?

it is obvious that war will create refugees, genuine refugees can seek assylem through legal and more appropriate channels.

But you are just using the word refugee to be a catchall for everyone migrating to and using violent means to force their way through Europe.