Cyprus-Forum.com

[Londonrake]

Hot off the global cover up disinformation press:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57782955

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[Paphitis]

However, there is another aspect to this. I remember fondly the claims of the Swedish Head Epidemiologist who said that new strains of Covid will evolve from the original strain. Proven to be correct. But what was striking was the fact he also said the new strains will be less deadly but more contagious. This is exactly what we are seeing.

So if we are seeing as many new infections from the new strain or more but with slightly fewer deaths, these vaccines have achieved nothing but make a few big Pharma companies even more wealthy.

That is the statistical average progression of most viruses most of the time over decades and centuries but in the case of covid we are not interested in what most virus do most of the time. We are interested in what THIS virus is going to do right now. Now if you had any interest in the truth, rather than just looking for anything that can support what your want to be true and make you feel clever, then you would ask yourself questions like 'how could I test / check if the reduction in deaths in the UK relative to number of new cases is because the delta variant is less deadly whilst being more virulent or is it as deadly but the vaccines are providing some degree of protection' ? The 'check' would be easy to come up with. Just look at countries where the delta variant is dominant as it is in the UK and new cases are surging but that has not vaccinated a significant % of the population like the UK has. If in these countries the ratio of deaths to new cases is similar to previous spikes from previous variants, then vaccination is having a material effect and if the ratio is massively lower like it is in the UK even though the number of cases is similar to previous outbreaks then the opposite conclusion can be drawn.

But you do not ask such question or have any interests in such 'checks'. You have no need to at all. You know what is right without any such effort or work because you are Paphitis. You just see a way to make out 'you were right all along' regardless of what the actual reality might be and that is good enough for you. Which is why you end up being so badly wrong so much of the time and I consider you a twat. Understanding takes time and effort. You have no interest in such burdens or in what the actual reality is. All you care about is being right or trying to find a way to make out you are right even when you are totally wrong. That is why you never need to test or check or self challenge any idea you come up with and why you are a twat.

We don’t care what YOUR statistical average is. We have our own statistical average here in Australia and that is the statistical averages the Australian Government has in mind. Also the fact that our lockdowns are truly lockdowns with police on the streets that can be right royal arseholes and lack any nuance or sense of humour. Australia atm is an Authoritarian State. It’s almost like a dictatorship with a benevolent leadership that can control every aspect of our lives, all in the public’s safety interest they would tell us every hour of every day.

If you don’t comply, the law bears down with force if necessary.

We only have that reality to see with our own eyes. Not your reality in Europe or US or Asia.

And our authorities are arrogant too. There is no doubt that they look down upon all of you. Like you are all stupid. Look down on the EU, UK, US and others and they tell us we are not like them or you and that we are by far better than you, smarter than you, have better health care than you, better hospitals than you and that because the crackdowns have been tough, we have led better lives and lifestyles than you.

It’s no doubt that the Australian and Kiwi measures have worked resoundingly.

So no, there is no urgency down under with vaccines and we are approaching it very cautiously and want to make the best decisions and are approaching it very systematically. We are not on a knife edge. We are not imploding in a sea of Covid. All we have is 40 odd community cases a day resulting in a lock down of a major international city - our beautiful gem Sydney.

The authorities will control it. In fact already have it well and truly under control because of their very quick actions and restrictions. Once again, the strategy is Elimination. We have seen this before and we have defeated Covid before and the same thing will happen here too.

This is one of few countries that can isolate parts from the rest. Right now, no one can get in our out unless you are an essential or approved worker.

That’s it.

Since Covid is not fully defeated in Australia and most probably can’t be despite with all their stringent measures, which tends to keep on coming back, albeit in small numbers and with a very draconian response by the government, then the Aussies must accept that this is their foreseeable future and the life they once knew will be no longer going into the future. Not only there won’t be opening of their borders to international travels, but often severe lockdowns between states and cities. It most probably means I will never see my friends there ever again. Once you and your family leave for the US, you will be lucky if you can ever return back down-under again.

It was Flight Crew that bought the virus into the Australian Community.

They have tracked down patient zero. And from there, they appear to be doing a very good job detecting all the clkusters and tracking them but it's a snow balling effect.

Most of the cases seem to be from one suburb, with a strong ethnic composition. The Australian Authorities have noticed that the virus is particularly dangerous among the ethnocally diverse and among people where English is not the first language.

If you look at Melbourne, which had a much more serious issue however, they managed to eradicate the issue. i think they will do the same in Sydney. It's just going to take 2 weeks minumum to do it. Maybe even more.

And the fact that Flight Crew were ultimately responsible just means they are going to crack down on the airline industry. how might you ask? Well there are all kinds of things they are looking at. Such as isolating Intl Flight Crews in specialized quarantined hotels and not let them out till it's time to leave and also testing them every day and things like that.

What is apparent here to all of us, is that they have isolated Sydney from the rest of the country. A situation that can't go on. So they will be looking at lifting that as soon possible.

[Londonrake]

https://in-cyprus.philenews.com/doctor- ... accinated/

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[erolz66]

https://in-cyprus.philenews.com/doctor-says-9-out-of-10-patients-had-not-been-vaccinated/

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Again I would say that these kind of statistics are dangerous given people's seemingly limited ability to understand such things properly and willingness to wilfully misunderstand them if it suits supporting their pre chosen position.

How many people that died from road traffic accidents last week were wearing seatbelts ? 90% ? So what do you conclude about the efficacy of seatbelts to prevent death and injury in rta's from this 'data' ? See what I mean yet ? Such a snap shot alone does not and can not tell you anything meaningful about the statistical efficacy of seat belts in reducing death from rta's. So too with covid vaccines is the reality.

[Londonrake]

https://in-cyprus.philenews.com/doctor-says-9-out-of-10-patients-had-not-been-vaccinated/

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Again I would say that these kind of statistics are dangerous given people's seemingly limited ability to understand such things properly and willingness to wilfully misunderstand them if it suits supporting their pre chosen position.

How many people that died from road traffic accidents last week were wearing seatbelts ? 90% ? So what do you conclude about the efficacy of seatbelts to prevent death and injury in rta's from this 'data' ? See what I mean yet ? Such a snap shot alone does not and can not tell you anything meaningful about the statistical efficacy of seat belts in reducing death from rta's. So too with covid vaccines is the reality.

Yes, you explained the stats with your seat belt analogy quite effectively last week.

I appreciate this is just the view of one person. Nevertheless, she’s a doctor at the coalface and member of a seemingly important advisory committee. That aside, as you will be aware, the Cyprus government stopped publishing these details some time ago. What she’s giving us is an “inside” view, revealing that 9 out of 10 hospitalizations here are non-vaccinated personnel. I find that very reassuring (although, I’m not entirely surprised).

The mystery to me is, if they’re truly desperate to increase vaccine take up I’d have thought they’d want to shout it from the rooftops. Then again, perhaps they are.

[repulsewarrior]

https://in-cyprus.philenews.com/doctor-says-9-out-of-10-patients-had-not-been-vaccinated/

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Again I would say that these kind of statistics are dangerous given people's seemingly limited ability to understand such things properly and willingness to wilfully misunderstand them if it suits supporting their pre chosen position.

How many people that died from road traffic accidents last week were wearing seatbelts ? 90% ? So what do you conclude about the efficacy of seatbelts to prevent death and injury in rta's from this 'data' ? See what I mean yet ? Such a snap shot alone does not and can not tell you anything meaningful about the statistical efficacy of seat belts in reducing death from rta's. So too with covid vaccines is the reality.

Yes, you explained the stats with your seat belt analogy quite effectively last week.

I appreciate this is just the view of one person. Nevertheless, she’s a doctor at the coalface and member of a seemingly important advisory committee. That aside, as you will be aware, the Cyprus government stopped publishing these details some time ago. What she’s giving us is an “inside” view, revealing that 9 out of 10 hospitalizations here are non-vaccinated personnel. I find that very reassuring (although, I’m not entirely surprised).

The mystery to me is, if they’re truly desperate to increase vaccine take up I’d have thought they’d want to shout it from the rooftops. Then again, perhaps they are.

...exactly as i said, the same results in Canada and the USA.

And yes, everyday there is relentless reporting of this fact, that it is the un-vaccinated who are most likely to be the ones lying in hospital bed, and in the USA, i understand that there are campaigns to inform people, door to door.

Vaccinations work, it seems; but not at 100%, thus there is good reason to continuing to take the issue just as seriously: it is not likely to disappear on its own.

[erolz66]

https://in-cyprus.philenews.com/doctor-says-9-out-of-10-patients-had-not-been-vaccinated/

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Again I would say that these kind of statistics are dangerous given people's seemingly limited ability to understand such things properly and willingness to wilfully misunderstand them if it suits supporting their pre chosen position.

How many people that died from road traffic accidents last week were wearing seatbelts ? 90% ? So what do you conclude about the efficacy of seatbelts to prevent death and injury in rta's from this 'data' ? See what I mean yet ? Such a snap shot alone does not and can not tell you anything meaningful about the statistical efficacy of seat belts in reducing death from rta's. So too with covid vaccines is the reality.

Yes, you explained the stats with your seat belt analogy quite effectively last week.

I appreciate this is just the view of one person. Nevertheless, she’s a doctor at the coalface and member of a seemingly important advisory committee. That aside, as you will be aware, the Cyprus government stopped publishing these details some time ago. What she’s giving us is an “inside” view, revealing that 9 out of 10 hospitalizations here are non-vaccinated personnel. I find that very reassuring (although, I’m not entirely surprised).

The mystery to me is, if they’re truly desperate to increase vaccine take up I’d have thought they’d want to shout it from the rooftops. Then again, perhaps they are.

What this doctor (and fauci for that matter) is doing imo is little different from what paphitis does / did in regard to these kind of statistics. Now the doctors may be doing it with all the best intentions, which btw is patronising in the extreme to those who can think properly and Paphitis because they are a twat but its dangerous whoever does imo. The core problem is peoples inability to comprehend properly and their desire for simplicity and binary answers whilst living in a universe that is vastly complex and infinite. The very idea that you can make any sort of meaningful conclusion from such numbers alone in a snap shot as to efficacy is just invalid. Full stop. I do not believe you fight fire with fire, hate with greater hate, propaganda with better propaganda, lies with better lies though even then that is a necessary simplification (you can fight fire with fire to a degree and in specific circumstances). What we need to do imo is improve people's ability to think, not feed in to their inability to think clearly with counter meaningless stats. That is my problem with these kind of stats. They feed stupidity and miscomprehension not tackle it.

As an aside how many adults do you think, without referring to google, could explain what the difference is between the mean / average in a set of numbers and the median in that set ? That is the problem.

[erolz66]

Vaccinations work, it seems; but not at 100%, thus there is good reason to continuing to take the issue just as seriously: it is not likely to disappear on its own.

Yes the evidence of the efficacy of the current vaccines we have against the current variants of covid-19 is real and compelling. However you can NOT find or asses that efficacy using snapshot numbers like 'how many people last week who died of covid were vaccinated or not vaccinated'. It is more complex than that. it requires more information than that. It requires more hard and serious work than that. More thought than that. More effort than that. It is dangerous imo to make out you can. Dangerous because it will lead people like Paphitis to think 'they are not telling us these numbers because they are hiding something'.

[repulsewarrior]

Death is one issue, hospitalisations is another; which can be counted, and in my opinion, as important.

...indeed, it will take years to model the data, so that from this analysis , there are results which will be helpful in making real progress on how such epidemics work, and how they should be approached.

[Londonrake]

Deja vu:

https://cyprus-mail.com/2021/07/14/coro ... on-friday/

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