Cyprus-Forum.com

[Tim Drayton]

I find the views of German pulmonoligist Wolfgang Wodarg to be very informative. You can find a brief clip by him in German with English subtitles here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qwiyxedC_o

There is a longer interview of him by a German TV station without subtitles. Strangely, the presenter suddenly says that they need to bring the interview to an early end due to the poor quality of the video link to him, although the quality seems fine to me.

[Kikapu]

The truth is we do not have true numbers.

Precisely.

And yet you claim: -

we are in the very early stages of the devastations to come yet on the Coronavirus related deaths.

What we do know for absolutely sure is that the World economy will be FUBAR if we continue on our current course.

I think we should have the numbers before we take such drastic actions and not rely on dodgy 13+ year old computer models.

I stand by my statement.

If you haven’t noticed, the death rates are climbing each day in the thousands from very few not so long ago. This alone should cause for concern. There are no real answers how to curb the spread of this virus. No one knows for sure the lockdown will work. It is all an experiment, but since the world wide spread has happened after starting in China Without the lockdown, it is obvious that the virus has spread to the point where we are today because people were in close proximity to each other to those who had the virus. This cannot be disputed unless you can show me that the Coronavirus is in the atmosphere or in the water and has no relevance to people mingling together in numbers.

Well I'm guessing that neither of us are virologists - but you should read the expert onions on Tim's post...

I did read some of the comments by these scientists which Tim posted and it seems they were written a little prematurely as one of them states what is the big deal where there are only 40-50 deaths in Washington state at a old people’s home (I am paraphrasing). Since then in short 3 weeks the death toll in the USA has climbed to nearly 6,000 and the predictions are to rise 100,000-240,000 deaths if everything goes well. None of these scientists are predicting as such, but the maths seems to be different. Instead they are saying the lockdown is more deadly on the long run than not, when they have no previous experience to make that claim and we are expected to believe them just because they are scientists. They may be able to make that claim far down the road if they are correct, but not now.

[cyprusgrump]

The truth is we do not have true numbers.

Precisely.

And yet you claim: -

we are in the very early stages of the devastations to come yet on the Coronavirus related deaths.

What we do know for absolutely sure is that the World economy will be FUBAR if we continue on our current course.

I think we should have the numbers before we take such drastic actions and not rely on dodgy 13+ year old computer models.

I stand by my statement.

If you haven’t noticed, the death rates are climbing each day in the thousands from very few not so long ago. This alone should cause for concern. There are no real answers how to curb the spread of this virus. No one knows for sure the lockdown will work. It is all an experiment, but since the world wide spread has happened after starting in China Without the lockdown, it is obvious that the virus has spread to the point where we are today because people were in close proximity to each other to those who had the virus. This cannot be disputed unless you can show me that the Coronavirus is in the atmosphere or in the water and has no relevance to people mingling together in numbers.

Well I'm guessing that neither of us are virologists - but you should read the expert onions on Tim's post...

I did read some of the comments by these scientists which Tim posted and it seems they were written a little prematurely as one of them states what is the big deal where there are only 40-50 deaths in Washington state at a old people’s home (I am paraphrasing). Since then in short 3 weeks the death toll in the USA has climbed to nearly 6,000 and the predictions are to rise 100,000-240,000 deaths if everything goes well. None of these scientists are predicting as such, but the maths seems to be different. Instead they are saying the lockdown is more deadly on the long run than not, when they have no previous experience to make that claim and we are expected to believe them just because they are scientists. They may be able to make that claim far down the road if they are correct, but not now.

But there reverse is also true... We don't know they are wrong either.

And we know we are definitely going to FUBAR the World economy choosing this route...

[Tim Drayton]

Death toll in the USA 6,000?

This is how the influenza season is going this year in the USA:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/pr ... imates.htm

Why no hysterical reporting about this, even though the figures are far worse?

[CrookedRiverGuy]

Death toll in the USA 6,000?

This is how the influenza season is going this year in the USA:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/pr ... imates.htm

Why no hysterical reporting about this, even though the figures are far worse?

The way you make use of these figures, makes me smile.

OK... so according to the broad estimate there has been between 24' to 62' deaths over 172 days. Let us meet in the middle: 43000. Divided by 172. 250 a day.

4 times as many were linked to Corona in the US yesterday - and we are only at the beginning.

Let me remind you of this post in a month

[Kikapu]

No one can prove a negative, therefore the world has taken the actions for lockdown and hope for the best. Considering the world is bigger than these 12 scientists, the majority has spoken, despite there not being a democratic vote!

The economic damage now is only temporary and will return to normality and better in time once the virus has been contained. You cannot have a health economy with a sick population across the world, so the options are very limited. If there wasn’t a lockdown and people were dropping dead all over the place in their thousands from Coronavirus , how would that make the economy grow?

[cyprusgrump]

No one can prove a negative, therefore the world has taken the actions for lockdown and hope for the best. Considering the world is bigger than these 12 scientists, the majority has spoken, despite there not being a democratic vote!

The economic damage now is only temporary and will return to normality and better in time once the virus has been contained. You cannot have a health economy with a sick population across the world, so the options are very limited. If there wasn’t a lockdown and people were dropping dead all over the place in their thousands from Coronavirus , how would that make the economy grow?

But then you'd have proof that a lockdown was necessary...

Assuming we get over this fairly soon then the lockdown will be cited as the reason.

Logically then, we'd all have to go back into lockdown next flu season too - it would have to become a regular part of our lives 'to protect us'... Not that we'd really have lives as we now know them of course...

[Kikapu]

No one can prove a negative, therefore the world has taken the actions for lockdown and hope for the best. Considering the world is bigger than these 12 scientists, the majority has spoken, despite there not being a democratic vote!

The economic damage now is only temporary and will return to normality and better in time once the virus has been contained. You cannot have a health economy with a sick population across the world, so the options are very limited. If there wasn’t a lockdown and people were dropping dead all over the place in their thousands from Coronavirus , how would that make the economy grow?

But then you'd have proof that a lockdown was necessary...

Assuming we get over this fairly soon then the lockdown will be cited as the reason.

Logically then, we'd all have to go back into lockdown next flu season too - it would have to become a regular part of our lives 'to protect us'... Not that we'd really have lives as we now know them of course...

No, I do not have any proof.

I am just countering your argument that the economy would not have been in the ruins if there wasn’t a lockdown despite thousands dropping dead due to the Coronavirus.

I hope you are not suggesting that I am enjoying being under “house arrest” with the lockdown!

[cyprusgrump]

No one can prove a negative, therefore the world has taken the actions for lockdown and hope for the best. Considering the world is bigger than these 12 scientists, the majority has spoken, despite there not being a democratic vote!

The economic damage now is only temporary and will return to normality and better in time once the virus has been contained. You cannot have a health economy with a sick population across the world, so the options are very limited. If there wasn’t a lockdown and people were dropping dead all over the place in their thousands from Coronavirus , how would that make the economy grow?

But then you'd have proof that a lockdown was necessary...

Assuming we get over this fairly soon then the lockdown will be cited as the reason.

Logically then, we'd all have to go back into lockdown next flu season too - it would have to become a regular part of our lives 'to protect us'... Not that we'd really have lives as we now know them of course...

No, I do not have any proof.

I am just countering your argument that the economy would not have been in the ruins if there wasn’t a lockdown despite thousands dropping dead due to the Coronavirus.

I hope you are not suggesting that I am enjoying being under “house arrest” with the lockdown!

That isn't my argument tho is it...?

My argument is that the economy will inevitably be in ruins because of the lockdown.

Whereas we don't know if there would be thousands dropping dead if we didn't...

Indeed, the UK's reaction seems to have been based on some dodgy 13+ year old models from a scientist who is now back-peddling from his initial predictions of 500,000 dead.

[Kikapu]

No one can prove a negative, therefore the world has taken the actions for lockdown and hope for the best. Considering the world is bigger than these 12 scientists, the majority has spoken, despite there not being a democratic vote!

The economic damage now is only temporary and will return to normality and better in time once the virus has been contained. You cannot have a health economy with a sick population across the world, so the options are very limited. If there wasn’t a lockdown and people were dropping dead all over the place in their thousands from Coronavirus , how would that make the economy grow?

But then you'd have proof that a lockdown was necessary...

Assuming we get over this fairly soon then the lockdown will be cited as the reason.

Logically then, we'd all have to go back into lockdown next flu season too - it would have to become a regular part of our lives 'to protect us'... Not that we'd really have lives as we now know them of course...

No, I do not have any proof.

I am just countering your argument that the economy would not have been in the ruins if there wasn’t a lockdown despite thousands dropping dead due to the Coronavirus.

I hope you are not suggesting that I am enjoying being under “house arrest” with the lockdown!

That isn't my argument tho is it...?

My argument is that the economy will inevitably be in ruins because of the lockdown.

Whereas we don't know if there would be thousands dropping dead if we didn't...

Indeed, the UK's reaction seems to have been based on some dodgy 13+ year old models from a scientist who is now back-peddling from his initial predictions of 500,000 dead.

Well, let’s wait and see. We will have better idea what the outcome is going to be one way or the other 6 months down the road.