Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

United Airlines to lay off 36000 staff.

So I am very much in the Trump and Sweden camp. Economy before anything. But obvious some precautions and looking after the vulnerable with lock downs.

What we have now is unsustainable. It can't continue for too much longer after this year. This is what everyone doesn't get.

But there are no shutdowns anywhere to speak off for the last 1-2 months, unless like me, you consider social distancing also a form of shutdown, and yet many businesses like the aviation and tourist industry have not recovered and cannot recover if people do not feel safe, imaginary or real when the world’s largest economy not only did not impose a complete shutdown, but it pulled out of it way too soon, and to make matters worse, told the people to get back to your normal lives again, thank you Donald Trump.

Now the situation has gotten much worse in the US and if the US catches an economic cold, the rest of the world will catch it also. The point is, after the shutdown if managed well as most European countries have done, we could have all been doing much better today to keep the Covid-19 under a manageable control a while a little longer with social distancing and wearing mask, which would help gain people’s confidences so that they would start traveling.

The more some people resist to make some adjustments to their lives to keep the pandemic in check, the worse the situation will become until we can all hope that Big Pharma can come up with a vaccine for it. At that point, we will give anything they will ask for the vaccine. No point blaming the Big Pharma to come to “save “us because certain leaders and their followers were too stupid to follow science instead of politics.

Yes there are. The State of Victoria is completely shut down from the rest of Australia. You can't go to Melbourne right now unless you have approval by the Government. I mean gee, I never thought I would ever see that day in Australia when our beautiful Melbourne is in complete shut down. For those who don't know, Melbourne is a gem of a city. One of the best in the world. A city full of soul and character, now a ghost town with people locked in their houses for the next 6 weeks. Yeh 6 weeks. House arrest. And police issuing fines of $1000 if you are caught outside. Only exemptions are shopping for essentials, and exercising in your area so we have police asking people for ID to see where people live. If you are outside your suburb, then you get the fine. AWFUL!

A State within Australia isolated from the rest of Australia which is almost isolated from most countries apart from 14 odd, and even then under intense restrictions and other measures.

But the use by date is well and truly on its way as PM has said that Australia and all States within must open no matter what the situation is with Chy-na Virus. Otherwise, the economy will be wrecked. Don't know if you have heard, but there is a second wave here. We are getting 400 to 500 new cases every day. We use to get single digits for a month.

Still not a catastrophe by any means, but Australia is back on the exponential trajectory and at the moment it's an Apollo Mission trajectory to the moon. If it continues then we are going to fully lock down again but no matter what happens, restrictions will be repealed by Christmas and the herd immunity approach will be taken. So from end of this year, it will be about the economy as the lock-downs are unsustainable to the country according to our Government.

Australia was a country which applied rather strict measures and is now back to square 1, Exactly where Europe will find itself as well, in a month or so. So how did that happen? Well I think COVID has always been in our community and will keep re-appearing in waves over and over again. The Question is, do we follow the science and lock down each time> I would rather think that is impractical and completely much more destructive than the virus itself.

[Kikapu]

United Airlines to lay off 36000 staff.

So I am very much in the Trump and Sweden camp. Economy before anything. But obvious some precautions and looking after the vulnerable with lock downs.

What we have now is unsustainable. It can't continue for too much longer after this year. This is what everyone doesn't get.

But there are no shutdowns anywhere to speak off for the last 1-2 months, unless like me, you consider social distancing also a form of shutdown, and yet many businesses like the aviation and tourist industry have not recovered and cannot recover if people do not feel safe, imaginary or real when the world’s largest economy not only did not impose a complete shutdown, but it pulled out of it way too soon, and to make matters worse, told the people to get back to your normal lives again, thank you Donald Trump.

Now the situation has gotten much worse in the US and if the US catches an economic cold, the rest of the world will catch it also. The point is, after the shutdown if managed well as most European countries have done, we could have all been doing much better today to keep the Covid-19 under a manageable control a while a little longer with social distancing and wearing mask, which would help gain people’s confidences so that they would start traveling.

The more some people resist to make some adjustments to their lives to keep the pandemic in check, the worse the situation will become until we can all hope that Big Pharma can come up with a vaccine for it. At that point, we will give anything they will ask for the vaccine. No point blaming the Big Pharma to come to “save “us because certain leaders and their followers were too stupid to follow science instead of politics.

Yes there are. The State of Victoria is completely shut down from the rest of Australia. You can't go to Melbourne right now unless you have approval by the Government. I mean gee, I never thought I would ever see that day in Australia when our beautiful Melbourne is in complete shut down. For those who don't know, Melbourne is a gem of a city. One of the best in the world. A city full of soul and character, now a ghost town with people locked in their houses for the next 6 weeks. Yeh 6 weeks. House arrest. And police issuing fines of $1000 if you are caught outside. Only exemptions are shopping for essentials, and exercising in your area so we have police asking people for ID to see where people live. If you are outside your suburb, then you get the fine. AWFUL!

A State within Australia isolated from the rest of Australia which is almost isolated from most countries apart from 14 odd, and even then under intense restrictions and other measures.

But the use by date is well and truly on its way as PM has said that Australia and all States within must open no matter what the situation is with Chy-na Virus. Otherwise, the economy will be wrecked. Don't know if you have heard, but there is a second wave here. We are getting 400 to 500 new cases every day. We use to get single digits for a month.

Still not a catastrophe by any means, but Australia is back on the exponential trajectory and at the moment it's an Apollo Mission trajectory to the moon. If it continues then we are going to fully lock down again but no matter what happens, restrictions will be repealed by Christmas and the herd immunity approach will be taken. So from end of this year, it will be about the economy as the lock-downs are unsustainable to the country according to our Government.

Australia was a country which applied rather strict measures and is now back to square 1, Exactly where Europe will find itself as well, in a month or so. So how did that happen? Well I think COVID has always been in our community and will keep re-appearing in waves over and over again. The Question is, do we follow the science and lock down each time> I would rather think that is impractical and completely much more destructive than the virus itself.

I knew that Victoria was in isolation with the rest of the country, but wasn't sure if they were also in a lockdown within Victoria. I am also aware of the rise in new cases to be in the hundreds. As for Herd immunity, forget it. Humans do not live in a herd, but in isolation most of the time.

[cyprusgrump]

THE MEDIA'S JIHAD AGAINST SWEDEN'S NO-LOCKDOWN POLICY IGNORES KEY FACTS

Indeed, looking at this, one might conclude that thanks to Sweden we know what both lockdown and nonlockdown countries look like: they look remarkably similar in some cases.

Similarly, in the US we have some states that had relatively short and less-harsh lockdowns, which we can compare to states with very strict lockdowns. In many cases, the states with the mild lockdowns continue to have total deaths that are small fractions of those in areas with far more harsh measures.

Advocates of lockdowns insist that we must only "wait two weeks" and matters in Texas will look just like those in New York. Anything's possible, but it's pretty clear any sort of equivalence between the two areas is going to require more than "two weeks" to come about. After all, after failing to implement a lockdown for months, Sweden is still nowhere near matching the death rates reported in New York.

My emphasis...

I think you have another 'two weeks' Kiks before we can check your claim that deaths will increase by 50% to 100%...

[Paphitis]

United Airlines to lay off 36000 staff.

So I am very much in the Trump and Sweden camp. Economy before anything. But obvious some precautions and looking after the vulnerable with lock downs.

What we have now is unsustainable. It can't continue for too much longer after this year. This is what everyone doesn't get.

But there are no shutdowns anywhere to speak off for the last 1-2 months, unless like me, you consider social distancing also a form of shutdown, and yet many businesses like the aviation and tourist industry have not recovered and cannot recover if people do not feel safe, imaginary or real when the world’s largest economy not only did not impose a complete shutdown, but it pulled out of it way too soon, and to make matters worse, told the people to get back to your normal lives again, thank you Donald Trump.

Now the situation has gotten much worse in the US and if the US catches an economic cold, the rest of the world will catch it also. The point is, after the shutdown if managed well as most European countries have done, we could have all been doing much better today to keep the Covid-19 under a manageable control a while a little longer with social distancing and wearing mask, which would help gain people’s confidences so that they would start traveling.

The more some people resist to make some adjustments to their lives to keep the pandemic in check, the worse the situation will become until we can all hope that Big Pharma can come up with a vaccine for it. At that point, we will give anything they will ask for the vaccine. No point blaming the Big Pharma to come to “save “us because certain leaders and their followers were too stupid to follow science instead of politics.

Yes there are. The State of Victoria is completely shut down from the rest of Australia. You can't go to Melbourne right now unless you have approval by the Government. I mean gee, I never thought I would ever see that day in Australia when our beautiful Melbourne is in complete shut down. For those who don't know, Melbourne is a gem of a city. One of the best in the world. A city full of soul and character, now a ghost town with people locked in their houses for the next 6 weeks. Yeh 6 weeks. House arrest. And police issuing fines of $1000 if you are caught outside. Only exemptions are shopping for essentials, and exercising in your area so we have police asking people for ID to see where people live. If you are outside your suburb, then you get the fine. AWFUL!

A State within Australia isolated from the rest of Australia which is almost isolated from most countries apart from 14 odd, and even then under intense restrictions and other measures.

But the use by date is well and truly on its way as PM has said that Australia and all States within must open no matter what the situation is with Chy-na Virus. Otherwise, the economy will be wrecked. Don't know if you have heard, but there is a second wave here. We are getting 400 to 500 new cases every day. We use to get single digits for a month.

Still not a catastrophe by any means, but Australia is back on the exponential trajectory and at the moment it's an Apollo Mission trajectory to the moon. If it continues then we are going to fully lock down again but no matter what happens, restrictions will be repealed by Christmas and the herd immunity approach will be taken. So from end of this year, it will be about the economy as the lock-downs are unsustainable to the country according to our Government.

Australia was a country which applied rather strict measures and is now back to square 1, Exactly where Europe will find itself as well, in a month or so. So how did that happen? Well I think COVID has always been in our community and will keep re-appearing in waves over and over again. The Question is, do we follow the science and lock down each time> I would rather think that is impractical and completely much more destructive than the virus itself.

I knew that Victoria was in isolation with the rest of the country, but wasn't sure if they were also in a lockdown within Victoria. I am also aware of the rise in new cases to be in the hundreds. As for Herd immunity, forget it. Humans do not live in a herd, but in isolation most of the time.

Humans are a social animal, so this isolation malarkey that we see in Melbourne, is on its last legs.

What do you mean about another lock down in a state - is it because people can't leave their suburb without reason? Yes it's pretty full on. Poor bastards in Mexico are going to go mad.

[repulsewarrior]

...we are still at the beginning of this pandemic.

...i note this Doctor's comments on vaccines and research.

[cyprusgrump]

Coronavirus: Government suspends publication of daily UK-wide death toll over accuracy concerns

The UK government has halted the publication of the daily number of coronavirus deaths over concerns that "statistical flaws" might be rendering the data inaccurate.

The pause in publication was decided by the Department of Health and Social Care after the health secretary, Matt Hancock, ordered a review into the figures.

A study by academics published late this week suggested that the toll is subject to "over-exaggeration" because of the way Public Health England (PHE) measures deaths.

A statement on the government's website read: "The secretary of state has today, 17 July, asked PHE to urgently review their estimation of daily death statistics.

"Currently the daily deaths measure counts all people who have tested positive for coronavirus and since died, with no cut-off between time of testing and date of death.

[Kikapu]

United Airlines to lay off 36000 staff.

So I am very much in the Trump and Sweden camp. Economy before anything. But obvious some precautions and looking after the vulnerable with lock downs.

What we have now is unsustainable. It can't continue for too much longer after this year. This is what everyone doesn't get.

But there are no shutdowns anywhere to speak off for the last 1-2 months, unless like me, you consider social distancing also a form of shutdown, and yet many businesses like the aviation and tourist industry have not recovered and cannot recover if people do not feel safe, imaginary or real when the world’s largest economy not only did not impose a complete shutdown, but it pulled out of it way too soon, and to make matters worse, told the people to get back to your normal lives again, thank you Donald Trump.

Now the situation has gotten much worse in the US and if the US catches an economic cold, the rest of the world will catch it also. The point is, after the shutdown if managed well as most European countries have done, we could have all been doing much better today to keep the Covid-19 under a manageable control a while a little longer with social distancing and wearing mask, which would help gain people’s confidences so that they would start traveling.

The more some people resist to make some adjustments to their lives to keep the pandemic in check, the worse the situation will become until we can all hope that Big Pharma can come up with a vaccine for it. At that point, we will give anything they will ask for the vaccine. No point blaming the Big Pharma to come to “save “us because certain leaders and their followers were too stupid to follow science instead of politics.

Yes there are. The State of Victoria is completely shut down from the rest of Australia. You can't go to Melbourne right now unless you have approval by the Government. I mean gee, I never thought I would ever see that day in Australia when our beautiful Melbourne is in complete shut down. For those who don't know, Melbourne is a gem of a city. One of the best in the world. A city full of soul and character, now a ghost town with people locked in their houses for the next 6 weeks. Yeh 6 weeks. House arrest. And police issuing fines of $1000 if you are caught outside. Only exemptions are shopping for essentials, and exercising in your area so we have police asking people for ID to see where people live. If you are outside your suburb, then you get the fine. AWFUL!

A State within Australia isolated from the rest of Australia which is almost isolated from most countries apart from 14 odd, and even then under intense restrictions and other measures.

But the use by date is well and truly on its way as PM has said that Australia and all States within must open no matter what the situation is with Chy-na Virus. Otherwise, the economy will be wrecked. Don't know if you have heard, but there is a second wave here. We are getting 400 to 500 new cases every day. We use to get single digits for a month.

Still not a catastrophe by any means, but Australia is back on the exponential trajectory and at the moment it's an Apollo Mission trajectory to the moon. If it continues then we are going to fully lock down again but no matter what happens, restrictions will be repealed by Christmas and the herd immunity approach will be taken. So from end of this year, it will be about the economy as the lock-downs are unsustainable to the country according to our Government.

Australia was a country which applied rather strict measures and is now back to square 1, Exactly where Europe will find itself as well, in a month or so. So how did that happen? Well I think COVID has always been in our community and will keep re-appearing in waves over and over again. The Question is, do we follow the science and lock down each time> I would rather think that is impractical and completely much more destructive than the virus itself.

I knew that Victoria was in isolation with the rest of the country, but wasn't sure if they were also in a lockdown within Victoria. I am also aware of the rise in new cases to be in the hundreds. As for Herd immunity, forget it. Humans do not live in a herd, but in isolation most of the time.

Humans are a social animal, so this isolation malarkey that we see in Melbourne, is on its last legs.

What do you mean about another lock down in a state - is it because people can't leave their suburb without reason? Yes it's pretty full on. Poor bastards in Mexico are going to go mad.

Yes, humans are social animals, but mostly in their small circles of few people at best, but most of the time, we are on our own. That is not a “herd” by any imagination as we are not one of few million eating together, walking together, sleeping together, crapping together in order to pass any disease to each other in a rapid method so to build a herd immunity to the majority from the minority ones who have died. How is Sweden’s herd immunity going?

Your last sentence is completely incomprehensible to me!

[cyprusgrump]

How is Sweden’s herd immunity going?

I'd say it was going pretty well actually...

[Kikapu]

How is Sweden’s herd immunity going?

I'd say it was going pretty well actually...

Your chart does not answer the question!

[Kikapu]

Coronavirus: Government suspends publication of daily UK-wide death toll over accuracy concerns

The UK government has halted the publication of the daily number of coronavirus deaths over concerns that "statistical flaws" might be rendering the data inaccurate.

The pause in publication was decided by the Department of Health and Social Care after the health secretary, Matt Hancock, ordered a review into the figures.

A study by academics published late this week suggested that the toll is subject to "over-exaggeration" because of the way Public Health England (PHE) measures deaths.

A statement on the government's website read: "The secretary of state has today, 17 July, asked PHE to urgently review their estimation of daily death statistics.

"Currently the daily deaths measure counts all people who have tested positive for coronavirus and since died, with no cut-off between time of testing and date of death.

Is this not how cancer illnesses are counted and heart illnesses are counted and diabetic illnesses are counted and so on, especially when death occurred many years after when first diagnosed?

Covid-19 is only known in the last few months at most and those who may have contracted the coronavirus and died sometime later is not that far from when they had first contracted the virus to be discounted as the cause.