Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

Another one of “my” experts?

Dr. Steven Shapiro, chief medical and scientific officer of the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center made some interesting comments about reopening the economy, as reported here:

https://inside.upmc.com/shapiro-economy-roundtable/

I see nothing in that article on quick scan that clashes with the known hard fact numbers we do have (unlike many of your previous experts) and much that is in contradiction to themes previousl pushed by those firmely in the 'its all an exaggeration wiped up by media' camps.

[cyprusgrump]

Nor we should we ignore, diminish or seek to obfuscate what is fact - how many excess deaths from all causes there have been to date, just because doing so suits a pre chosen 'side' and narrative.

But that is exactly what you do!

You are willing to accept, "man dies in plane crash" as a Covid death because and precisely because it fits your narrative...

[CrookedRiverGuy]

එය මා අසා ඇති නරකම පිදුරු මිනිසාගේ තර්කයයි

[erolz66]

Nor we should we ignore, diminish or seek to obfuscate what is fact - how many excess deaths from all causes there have been to date, just because doing so suits a pre chosen 'side' and narrative.

But that is exactly what you do!

You are willing to accept, "man dies in plane crash" as a Covid death because and precisely because it fits your narrative...

No I accept it as a death. Nothing more. Which exactly my point. That I have been making for 6 weeks and you are unable to accept or grasp. You are the one who refuses to use the indisputable figures - deaths from ANY cause or recognise them as such. You are the one who tries to insist they are the same as cause of death figures. There is a reason why you do this.

[erolz66]

එය මා අසා ඇති නරකම පිදුරු මිනිසාගේ තර්කයයි

ඔව්, ඔහු දැනටමත් සකසා ඇති බාර්එකෙහි උස පවා ලබා දී ඇත

[Get Real!]

එය මා අසා ඇති නරකම පිදුරු මිනිසාගේ තර්කයයි

ඔව්, ඔහු දැනටමත් සකසා ඇති බාර්එකෙහි උස පවා ලබා දී ඇත

从前有三只小猪

[cyprusgrump]

එය මා අසා ඇති නරකම පිදුරු මිනිසාගේ තර්කයයි

-. --- - / .- - / .- .-.. .-.. .-.-.- / . .-. .-.. --- .-.. --.. / .-. . ..-. ..- ... . ... / - --- / .- -.-. -.-. . .--. - / - .... .- - / -- . -.. .. -.-. .- .-.. / .--. .-. --- ..-. . ... ... .. --- -. .- .-.. ... / -.-. .- -. / -.. . - . .-. -- .. -. . / .-- .... --- / -.. .. . -.. / --- ..-. / -.-. --- ...- .. -.. / .- -. -.. / .-- .... --- / -.. .. -.. / -. --- - .-.-.-

[erolz66]

එය මා අසා ඇති නරකම පිදුරු මිනිසාගේ තර්කයයි

-. --- - / .- - / .- .-.. .-.. .-.-.- / . .-. .-.. --- .-.. --.. / .-. . ..-. ..- ... . ... / - --- / .- -.-. -.-. . .--. - / - .... .- - / -- . -.. .. -.-. .- .-.. / .--. .-. --- ..-. . ... ... .. --- -. .- .-.. ... / -.-. .- -. / -.. . - . .-. -- .. -. . / .-- .... --- / -.. .. . -.. / --- ..-. / -.-. --- ...- .. -.. / .- -. -.. / .-- .... --- / -.. .. -.. / -. --- - .-.-.-

You are the one who has consistently said over and over and over that the covid-19 death figures are inaccurate, that medical professionals were putting covid-19 as cause of death when covid-19 was not cause of death. Over and over and over. Right up till the point were you started saying something entirely different. My simple consistent argument has been start with total death figures from all causes because there is and can be no opinion, no ambiguity and no argument over if someone is dead or not. You are the one who has consistently 'argued' over the accuracy of cause of death figures.

A CHILD could understand why cause of death is 'opinion' is not a binary status and often involves multiple related factors to varying degrees. Every and any medical handbook or guide to assigning cause of death to death certificates in the world acknowledges this reality. They all state explicitly that cause of death is the OPINION of the certifying officer. That such OPINIONS can vary among physicians. Like this one from Physicians' Handbook on Medical Certification of Death - CDC

cod.JPG

Which is WHY I have always said simply and consistently start with total death from all causes figures. The simple truth here is that those in the 'its all exaggeration and anyone who does not agree is a sheep' camp used those numbers, the total death all causes, when they suited their argument and stopped doing so when they no longer did. They have consistently complained about the inaccuracy of 'cause of death figures' until like you do now they started stating saying cause of death figures are simple and binary, not subject to opinion and are as unarguable as 'dead or not' figures. Having spent 6 weeks arguing that they were none of these things.

[erolz66]

The very question 'did someone die of COVID-19', yes or no, is just the wrong question. The right question is 'to what degree did covid-19 shorten a persons life span'.

This is another thing that you CG and others like you can not and will not 'hear' or accept. Because you are not interested in understanding. Because your over riding objective and desire is to simply support the 'side' you chose. You want the ambiguity. You need the ambiguity to be able to support your chosen position despite and regardless of what the reality may actually be.

[cyprusgrump]

You are the one who has consistently said over and over and over that the covid-19 death figures are inaccurate, that medical professionals were putting covid-19 as cause of death when covid-19 was not cause of death.

But I have never said that have I? It is just another of your lies...

My argument has always been that the numbers don't justify the action taken.

I've always relied on the World-wide figures - I'll state them again for the hard of understanding...

WW population, ~7bn

Number infected, 4.3m - call it 5m for arguments sake.

Number of dead, 292,000 - heck lets call it 500,000...

My argument (and that of very many others) has always been that the numbers don't justify destroying the economy, locking people in their homes and denying the sick (who don't have the virus) treatment.

My argument (and that of very many others) is that there is little difference between Lockdown and no Lockdown and the measures are therefore unjustifiable.