Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

I can assure you that you don't speak for everybody in quarantine for 14 days as I know 4 of them personally...

Yet not ONE of them is willing to say that publicly here on the forum ? And you call those who do NOT agree with you 'bedwetters' ?

[erolz66]

If only I had the time to rework this video and put a bucket on his head

[cyprusgrump]

I can assure you that you don't speak for everybody in quarantine for 14 days as I know 4 of them personally...

Yet not ONE of them is willing to say that publicly here on the forum ? And you call those who do NOT agree with you 'bedwetters' ?

Another Straw Man...

I'd be surprised if the four people I mention even know of the existence of Cyprus-Forum (they certainly aren't members) yet you claim the fact they haven't posted is proof of your position...?

#Feelsorryforbedwetters #LaughatEroLolz

[erolz66]

I can assure you that you don't speak for everybody in quarantine for 14 days as I know 4 of them personally...

Yet not ONE of them is willing to say that publicly here on the forum ? And you call those who do NOT agree with you 'bedwetters' ?

Another Straw Man...

I'd be surprised if the four people I mention even know of the existence of Cyprus-Forum (they certainly aren't members) yet you claim the fact they haven't posted is proof of your position...?

#Feelsorryforbedwetters #LaughatEroLolz

So why not try reading what I wrote then ?

(which is everyone here on RoC 14 day quarantine to date)

Meaning no one HERE on THIS forum. Ambiguity in what I said ? Possibly . Any effort on you part to even bother trying to clarify what I meant before jumping in to ridicule on false assumptions ? No.

[cyprusgrump]

So why not try reading what I wrote then ?

(which is everyone here on RoC 14 day quarantine to date)

Meaning no one HERE on THIS forum. Ambiguity in what I said ? Possibly . Any effort on you part to even bother trying to clarify what I meant before jumping in to ridicule on false assumptions ? No.

Oh dear, you poor loony...

You posted as follows...

I think you have next to nothing to offer the 'discussion' except your insults, to me and to ANYONE who does not agree with you (which is everyone here on RoC 14 day quarantine to date) with 'bedwetter' and the like.

I happen to know 4 people currently in 14 day quarantine in Agia Napa who are not members of this forum but who do definitely not agree with your view on things...

You are mental and you should seek help ErLolz... Perhaps you could check into the same asylum as Bordo... Mates Rates and all that...

#Sympathyforbedwetters #PrayforErLolz #Stopthelockdown

[erolz66]

So I point out the fact that no one here on this forum appears to support your view on quarantine on entry to RoC and therefore you are calling all of them bedwetters simply because they all disagree with you and you reply that you know four people not on this forum who agree with you. Yeah you logic and critical thinking skills are up to their usual par

And with you "#Stopthelockdown" you just so that all your fine words about being 'led by evidence' are just that , nothing but hot air and hypocrisy. Clearly your objective is just to 'campaign' for what you want, regardless of anything else. You made your mind up before any evidence was there at all and nothing will change it. Fine but have the guts to just be honest, generally and with yourself. Stop lying. Stop pretending you have any interest other than just trying to find and promote anything that supports your pre chosen view whilst ignoring or writing off anything that does not. You are not fooling me and I doubt many others that are not just doing the same and also chose the same 'side' as you before there was any real evidence on which to base such a choice.

[cyprusgrump]

So I point out the fact that no one here on this forum appears to support your view on quarantine on entry to RoC and therefore you are calling all of them bedwetters simply because they all disagree with you and you reply that you know four people not on this forum who agree with you. Yeah you logic and critical thinking skills are up to their usual par

And with you "#Stopthelockdown" you just so that all your fine words about being 'led by evidence' are just that , nothing but hot air and hypocrisy. Clearly your objective is just to 'campaign' for what you want, regardless of anything else. You made your mind up before any evidence was there at all and nothing will change it. Fine but have the guts to just be honest, generally and with yourself. Stop lying. Stop pretending you have any interest other than just trying to find and promote anything that supports your pre chosen view whilst ignoring or writing off anything that does not. You are not fooling me and I doubt many others that are not just doing the same and also chose the same 'side' as you before there was any real evidence on which to base such a choice.

Look in the mirror ErLolz!

Everything you posted there applies to you!

You're the one that claims to 'seek the truth' and be 'evidence led', while clearly having made your mind up at the start. I've never made that claim...

My view is very simple. The Lockdown is not the right approach to the problem and won't reduce overall deaths. Indeed, it was never claimed that Lockdown would reduce deaths, just 'flatten the curve' so hospitals could cope.

I (and others) have posted evidence that countries and states that have Lockdown don't have better outcomes than those that do not.

You of course ignore any such evidence and revert to shouty Straw Man arguments about ONS figures...

Here are your own words right back at you, because they apply to you...

Clearly your objective is just to 'campaign' for what you want, regardless of anything else. You made your mind up before any evidence was there at all and nothing will change it. Fine but have the guts to just be honest, generally and with yourself. Stop lying. Stop pretending you have any interest other than just trying to find and promote anything that supports your pre chosen view whilst ignoring or writing off anything that does not. You are not fooling me and I doubt many others that are not just doing the same and also chose the same 'side' as you before there was any real evidence on which to base such a choice.

[erolz66]

You're the one that claims to 'seek the truth' and be 'evidence led', while clearly having made your mind up at the start.

I have made up my mind to use fact numbers as my starting point and not just spend my time searching out guess ones that suit a pre chosen opinion. I have made up my mind to judge any and all guess numbers against the fact ones.

I've never made that claim...

Yes you have. And unlike you when I make an accusation I back it up with evidence.

cyprus47300-1290.html#p896537

My view is very simple. The Lockdown is not the right approach to the problem and won't reduce overall deaths. Indeed, it was never claimed that Lockdown would reduce deaths, just 'flatten the curve' so hospitals could cope.

The point of trying to flatten the curve is to reduce deaths that would occur if you did not flatten the curve.

I (and others) have posted evidence that countries and states that have Lockdown don't have better outcomes than those that do not.

You of course ignore any such evidence and revert to shouty Straw Man arguments about ONS figures...

You post 'evidence' based on 'guess numbers' that only suits the 'result' you pre chose. You ignore guess numbers that do not suit that result AND you ignorne FACT numbers that do not match your guess ones. I then test that evidence against known fact numbers and over and over the evidence from your guess numbers does not stack up against the known ones. You also post 'evidence' that is just clearly bogus if it suits your 'campaign'.

Here are your own words right back at you, because they apply to you...

Clearly your objective is just to 'campaign' for what you want, regardless of anything else. You made your mind up before any evidence was there at all and nothing will change it. Fine but have the guts to just be honest, generally and with yourself. Stop lying. Stop pretending you have any interest other than just trying to find and promote anything that supports your pre chosen view whilst ignoring or writing off anything that does not. You are not fooling me and I doubt many others that are not just doing the same and also chose the same 'side' as you before there was any real evidence on which to base such a choice.

Yes you keep making that claim, but the evidence shows otherwise. I have NOT posted a series of 'partisan' experts using guess numbers that show that lock down has been a success. This is ALL you have done re 'lock down is not a success'. All I have done is stick to starting with known fact numbers and measuring ALL claims on guess numbers, from anyone and that reach any conclusions against these hard known fact numbers.

[erolz66]

And having 'dreamt up' the Sweden test - on just KNOWN number of deaths per week all causes , with very very limited time I start to try and look for Sweden weekly numbers for total deaths all causes. I find this

https://www.thelocal.se/20200427/sweden ... he-century

Does this tell us anything about how many of the FACT ONS excess deaths might be from 'lockdwon' and how many from 'covid' ?

I had not looked at this before because personally I had little feeling that of the excess deaths in ONS numbers the majority was from lockdown, but am always prepared to hear what others think on questions that I think are valid (and not just spewing my exprts guess is better than yours) and then reconsider, think of ways to 'test' theories and refine my feeling from that. That is what I did here on the 'valid' question how many of UK excess deaths from all causes are related to lockdown. On first 'glance' at using the 'test against Sweden' approach, I would claim early indications are that my initial feeling was not totally out of wack. It is possible that it was on the high side and not the low. If and when I have time I will dig deeper and refine.

This kind of 'process' is what I consider to be an example of 'critical thinking' and of 'using numbers not emotion to come do conclusions'.

Looking at this is more detail, thinking for myself and laying out my 'workings' and going where ever the hard fact numbers lead.

UK highest flu spike 'weekly deaths all causes' pre covid - year 2020 - 20,666
current post covid highest deaths all causes in UK - 22,351
So in UK, with lock down, the highest total number of weekly deaths all causes post covid is 8.15 % higher than anything caused by flu in last 20 years (and almost certainly last 100 years)

Sweden (using numbers in cited article, would prefer to use source numbers but do not speak Swedish, so take these on trust for now)

Sweden highest flu spike 'weekly deaths all causes' pre covid - year 2020 - 2,364
Current post covid highest weekly number - 2,505
So in Sweden, without lock down, the total number of weekly deaths all causes post covid is 5.96 % higher than anything caused by flu in last 100 years (according to article cited)

Preliminary conclusion , of the excess deaths all causes seen in the UK the vast majority of them are NOT 'lock down' related, because Sweden that has not locked down is seeing an almost identical increase in excess total deaths all causes vs the 2020 previous highest flu spike figures in last 100 years.

Now none of this says if Sweden's approach is better or not than UK's. That will not be known and can not be know until we see if the UK suffers from 'winter 2nd wave' of infections and Sweden does not. This in turn is related to the unknown question - how much immunity does infection give and for how long. If infection gives strong immunity that lats until winter, then the possibility is that the UK will suffer a bad 'second wave' and Sweden will not. However if immunity on infection is weak and or lasts only a few months, then both UK and Sweden are likely to suffer similar levels in any 2nd wave outbreak.

What the above is NOT - is me just looking for any article, any evidence (even bogus evidence) , any expert and any claim that supports the idea that lock down is the right thing to do and then me posting it out here. What the above is , is me literally trying to 'think for myself'. It takes the known fact numbers of total deaths all causes in UK and seeks to investigate the question 'how many of the (once in hundred years) excess deaths shown in these numbers is down to 'lock down' by comparing the same hard known fact numbers with Sweden that has not locked down and seeing if there is difference. I did not know before hand what this analysis would show. If it had shown that Sweden's numbers now vs worst previous flu spike in 100 years was lower than in the UK by a significant amount, say 30%, I would accept that this would indicate that significant number of UK excess deaths were down to lock down. The hard fact numbers do not show this. I go where the hard fact numbers lead.

[Paphitis]

All restrictions will be revoked over 3 stages in Australia. Stage 1 will be this week.

Stage 2 by end of this month and stage 3 by mid June.

After stage 3. there will be no restrictions at all. Everything will be open for business, however, international travel will still be restricted.

Hoof@ckenhooray!