erolz66 wrote:Paphitis wrote:All I see is a lot of over reaction and fear mongering at this point and I am not convinced at all or buying in all the doomsday reactions.
You need to look back over some of your own posts historically. You were a fan of refusing Cruise ships to be allowed to dock even to let of citizens, even as Trump himself allowed such on the basis that to not do so would be inhuman. You advocate retaliation by Australia against China that will have severe economic consequences for Australia, all because a virus that is 'not that bad and not really dissimilar to flu' originated there and you do not think China did enough to stop it spreading outside China ? To me the contradictions in your shifting position are clear and present.
Paphitis wrote:I have no doubt Chy-na Virus exists. But how bad is it?
Bad enough to start putting up massive trade barriers with Australia's largest trading partner in terms of imports and exports ? Bad enough for you to start trying to 'de China' your entire life ?
Paphitis wrote:I stopped listening to the so called uncensored "experts" and I am not buying anymore. There are so many more experts out there who are being censored because they are not playing by the rules or abiding by the accepted narrative or agenda. I smell a rat. And it wouldn't surprise me at all if this Virus was man made either, or that big Pharma (who fund WHO) have their grubby hands in the pie. Of course, that could be wrong as well. I don't pretend to know. Just have a very open mind and see many unexplained inconsistencies.
Do you understand how a 'third party' might have doubts about your ability to find and identify non MSM media experts that are being censored because they are speaking truths that the powers to be do not want spoken, when you present David Icke as one such expert ? Saying 'anything is possible' without any critical effort to gauge to what degree it is probable is not being open minded. It is just abdicating any responsibility to have to think for yourself.
Paphitis wrote:I am however very pleased with the way Australia has handled the situation, ...
And you still maintain that Australia's response can fairly be described as essentially the same as Sweden's with the only material difference being closing of Bar's and Restaurants in Australia ?
Paphitis wrote:Why am I not looking at the numbers? Well I am, and it doesn't take a mathematician to work out something isn't quite right. There are so many inconsistencies. Australia is for instance experienced an extremely low mortality rate. Much lower than the common flu.
Other countries are reporting a mortality rate of 15%. From one extreme to the other.
Can you hear or understand anything I say ? Can you understand that some numbers are 'hard' and some are not ? That some numbers represent known, indisputable things - like if someone is dead or not. You do accept that is pretty clear cut right ? A pretty hard number ? Can you understand that some numbers represent things than can not be known yet, can only be guessed ? Even by experts. Is that concept understandable to you ? Numbers that can only be guessed atm include R rate, the specific mortality rate of this virus and things like how much and for how long infection provides immunity from subsequent infection. Can you understand that the 'hardest' numbers we have are total deaths, followed by numbers of known tested positive infections to date. Or is all this to complex for you ?
So I say again why not start with the hard knowable know numbers and work from there ? Why does it seem you can only see numbers that suit a given position, even when they come pretty much exclusively from the 'unknowable, best guess category' and seem to just ignore the knowable hard numbers ?
Paphitis wrote:Some countries like Chy-na somehow miraculously prevented the Chy-na Virus from spreading to all parts of Chy-na, and yet it has spread to every country around the world virtually.
Does China have ultimate authoritarian control over what goes on within China and to Chinese citizens ? Can it sequester them, restrict their movements in and out of different regions, prevent them from leaving the country. Prevent others from entering it ? Enforce testing. Enforce track and tracing with the effectiveness of a police state with such mechanism already in place ? Does it have such outside of China and can it or could it have places same strictures on non Chinese citizens that were in China before and as the virus outbreak became apparent ?
Paphitis wrote:Some countries have reported recovery numbers exceeding 80% whilst others are still counting cases that were reported 3 months ago as still being active.
As you yourself point out - this is yet again just another 'soft' number meaning by definition you will get vast differences at the best guesses of this number from country to country. These variations are inevitable and to be expected with such soft numbers. That is why it is best to start with the nard numbers we DO have.
Paphitis wrote:The way I see it, there should be well under 1 million active cases worldwide - hardly a friggin crisis.
You think that is the final toll then ? That not only has the world peaked but it is all but done and dusted as far as final death total goes ?
cyprus47300-1190.html#p896400Paphitis wrote:Whereas, all of you locked down in your houses are becoming miserable sods and destroying your bodies immunity system.
Where I am, I can now go out and about as I please anywhere except for Sundays where some restrictions still apply. Pretty much everything is open again except restaurants for eat in, they are opening up for take out as they are certified by authorities and their staff tested, and bars and casinos and large sporting event arenas. We have had twice now several continuous days without any new positive even as testing continues and increases, something that Australia has yet to achieve I think. I am not miserable. If anything the temporary 'break from routine' has been positive for me in many ways and at many levels and any frustrations are now rapidly diminishing as restrictions are reduced. I do not think my immune system has been affected in any way. Could it perhaps be that your guess as to what life has been like for 'others' is not as accurate as it might be and is seriously coloured by you wanting to believe that you are doing great and everyone else is doing shit by comparison, regardless of if that is the case or not ?
Yes! Refusing these cruise ships was a no brainer. At the time, about 30% of all our cases were from 2 cruise ships, and we had already closed our borders to international visitors at the time. Government had declared a State of Emergency.
For our citizens, our Navy was already mobilized and we even had our Hospital Ship ready to receive them. they were to be air lifted by Sea hawk Helicopters. Our navy was also prepared to accept any critically ill passengers on humanitarian grounds but the ships were instructed by our Navy on orders from Our Government to turn the ships around as Australia was closed to international arrivals and tourists.
I advocate for a thorough investigation over Chy-na's handling. That too, is a no brainer. I am very suss right now not only over Chy-na's handling of their "crisis" but am also quite suspicious that they may have (and I mean
may have) either developed this Virus in a lab in the name of research, or as a bio-weapon, or accidentally had an accident thus causing an outbreak in Wuhan. I am not ruling out the possibility that it was indeed from the Wuhan Wet Markets either. I simply do not know. It needs to be investigated. I am also wanting an investigation because Chy-na allowed international flights for a whole week after it had isolated Wuhan from the rest of Chy-na, thus making the situation very bad for the entire world.
Australia is taking action by leading calls for this investigation. These calls have received support from EU Countries like Germany, Netherlands, Austria, UK, and also US, Canada, NZ, Japan, Taiwan, Indonesia, Vietnam and South Korea. Australia has also taken action by revoking VISAS from Chy-nese nationals, and is also re-assessing its economic ties with Chy-na as we speak and also looking at ways to nationalize key industries such as Pharmaceuticals. This has wide spread support from the Australian People. We are lucky in that we are resource rich and it is very easy for us to replace Chy-na for other markets such as India and Russia who are begging to buy stuff from us.
As for our economy. It has already been affected. It is pure lunacy to not investigate Chy-na because of this as they are the root cause. And that could be as a result of nefarious intentions in which case, we can probably do without their business at the worst case scenario.
In the end, Australia probably is the best placed country to overcome any economic hardship far more quickly than most, because we are a primary producer of energy and export a lot of resources and valuable metals.
No I am sorry but the numbers do not represent indisputable facts as to whether someone died from Chy-na Virus. It only confirms that someone died of something. I am more inclined to trust the reported numbers from Australia. They are probably accurate enough more or less. However, I can not say I am trusting the numbers on Chy-na Virus globally. The reason I don't trust the numbers is very simple. They are inconsistent. It seems to me the Virus behaves differently from one country to the next. How can that be if we rule out lack of medical resources that some countries may experience? I believe the death numbers are grossly exaggerated. If someone dies in a car crash, and they have Chy-na Virus, they are counted as a statistic to Chy-na Virus. I also believe the number of active cases is by far exaggerated. What I do believe is that this virus has a very low mortality rate.
In Australia, we have over 3000 suicide deaths every year. We have only had 80 Chy-na Virus deaths. And right now, we only have 25 patients in ICU. These to me are the facts.
And sorry, but I am not finding the variance from country to country to be normal. I believe there are inconsistencies in the reporting from one country to the next. Even Australia was at it when they too had over-inflated active cases statistics until one day they reported that they had about 1200 recoveries in one day. So in other words, they were clearing the back log. What I believe is that for some reason, authorities in many countries are withholding information.
Oh and yeh, Chy-na is one of the most authoritarian States in the world. Not just authoritarian, but also a brutal regime, that violates the human rights of millions of people, such as the Uyghars. Maybe as a result of that, they have also achieved great success, but I do not for one second have any faith in the reported numbers coming from the Chy-nese Authorities.
Plus, you don't have to be an Authoritarian State to have success. Australia isn't an Authoritarian State and has had enormous success with containing Chy-na Virus. Not just Australia, but other countries like South Korea, Greece and Cyprus.
As I told you. I am very suspicious. I have a very open mind. I am in no position to rule anything out at this stage. I believe there are many possibilities, from bio weapon research, just plane medical research into bats, and even Big Pharma conspiracies. I will always look at all the cues, read and do my research into the various scenarios in a very analytical way.
Nope. i am not thinking this is the final toll and that there will be no more victims. I am by no means convinced we are dealing with the kind of crisis that is purported by the MSM. AND, I don't have any expectation or will to strive to save every single human being on the planet. Some people are going to die. Well too bad, so sad. I am not a supporter in killing off the economy in a futile attempt to save 10 possible deaths in Australia by having the entire population locked down, and killing the economy in the process and then see our suicide rate go from 3000 per year to 6000 per year. That is what the MSM are not taking into consideration. The cost to families, workers and who knows what the other costs are in terms of lives lost. it is a proven fact that during times of economic hardship and despair, mental health issues are on the rise, and there are more suicides.
But da! Let's lock everyone down and cause more harm. save a few Chy-na Virus lives, and lose more to suicide.
You live in a place about the size of a provincial town in Australia. Something like Newcastle - population 350,000.
Australia is a country of 25 million. Much harder to get zero cases here compared to your little backwater.
But some states have had zero cases for quite a number of days. I think South Australia (population 1.8 million) has had zero cases in the last 7 to 10 days. I think Western Australia, ACT, and Northern Territory may be the same. Most of our cases are in NSW which has over half of all cases. I think right now, Australia and South Korea lead the world by a long way. If we were cocky, we can just about come out and say we have really stopped Chy-na Virus in its tracks. But I'm not cocky about it because it could change. But at 860 active cases out of 25 million, it is sometimes difficult not to be over confident and even complacent. Bottom line is, I am more worried about how cold it's going to be in the morning.
