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[Paphitis]

Stock markets globally are tumbling. Coronavirus is a good reason for some market correction. 10%-15% is just about right before it start going up again......slowly.

Yeh I know. Nothing exclusive to the USA but the Aviation Industry is very vulnerable to things like this. It's always the first industry to show signs of stress.

If the Coronavirus gets any worse and for a long period of time, it is possible you moving to the states may well be delayed as they will have surplus pilots if many flights are canceled. Seniority is everything in most jobs in the USA, regardless if it’s unionized or not. As you have stated, you will get most of the “shit”runs for the first few years, and the same again if you relocate to another hub. Let’s hope you do not get caught in this from the time you resign from your present job to the next one. It may be prudent for you to wait and see how the Coronavirus plays out before resigning and accepting your new position. As far as I know, most jobs in the USA are not on a guaranteed salary, but instead, earn as you work. If you are not flying and sitting home because lack of work, you don’t have a paycheque (paycheck). I don’t even think you will qualify for unemployment if you haven’t paid into it in sufficient amount yet.

It shouldn't last that long at the rate they are recruiting.

They want to employ something like 2000 pilots and with that kind of recruitment the seniority rank won't be too bad after a couple of years.

Either way, it doesn't phase me a great deal. It just means i will be outbid a few times, and won't get the plum slots unless my fatigue score is high in which case I will get the plum sectors anyway to reduce my fatigue. If we keep copping the red eyes, then our 4 day cycle turns to a 3 day cycle and we get an extra day off. It's all swings and round abouts in aviation.

I will be on salary paid out at 75 hours of flying at x rate. That's the minimum base salary even when you don't work,

When we work, the average flying hours is 82 hours per month paid out at x and if we exceed 82 hours it's double time but we can only do 100 hours per month maximum and with that they have to give us 2 months off per year because you can't fly more than 1000 hours per annum. If you time out and go on leave, we still get paid. They have to compete in order to attract the pilots.

Also, on top of the salary, when we work we get a uniform allowance + per diem for every overlay + a call out fee if we get called out from reserve.

They also provide substantial health cover. So the package is pretty good.

I wouldn't take the job if it was as you describe. Right now they are screaming for pilots and are even paying substantial retention bonuses. That's about 60K alone.

Where the seniority has an even bigger affect is when you are trying to bid for extra sectors to get over the 82 hours. The airline will let you fly up to 100 hours a month and some pilots bid for the extra hours because the of the penalty rates.

My fear is that if Coronivirus causes economic mayhem, they might reconsider things, but my contact reckons that isn't going to happen. According to him, they are going to take those they promised jobs to and according to him they are going to reinforce their pilot numbers even if they flying is educed for whatever reason because its better to have them on payroll now than chase their tails down the track like they are now. We'll see.

[Kikapu]

Stock markets globally are tumbling. Coronavirus is a good reason for some market correction. 10%-15% is just about right before it start going up again......slowly.

Yeh I know. Nothing exclusive to the USA but the Aviation Industry is very vulnerable to things like this. It's always the first industry to show signs of stress.

If the Coronavirus gets any worse and for a long period of time, it is possible you moving to the states may well be delayed as they will have surplus pilots if many flights are canceled. Seniority is everything in most jobs in the USA, regardless if it’s unionized or not. As you have stated, you will get most of the “shit”runs for the first few years, and the same again if you relocate to another hub. Let’s hope you do not get caught in this from the time you resign from your present job to the next one. It may be prudent for you to wait and see how the Coronavirus plays out before resigning and accepting your new position. As far as I know, most jobs in the USA are not on a guaranteed salary, but instead, earn as you work. If you are not flying and sitting home because lack of work, you don’t have a paycheque (paycheck). I don’t even think you will qualify for unemployment if you haven’t paid into it in sufficient amount yet.

It shouldn't last that long at the rate they are recruiting.

They want to employ something like 2000 pilots and with that kind of recruitment the seniority rank won't be too bad after a couple of years.

Either way, it doesn't phase me a great deal. It just means i will be outbid a few times, and won't get the plum slots unless my fatigue score is high in which case I will get the plum sectors anyway to reduce my fatigue. If we keep copping the red eyes, then our 4 day cycle turns to a 3 day cycle and we get an extra day off. It's all swings and round abouts in aviation.

I will be on salary paid out at 75 hours of flying at x rate. That's the minimum base salary even when you don't work,

When we work, the average flying hours is 82 hours per month paid out at x and if we exceed 82 hours it's double time but we can only do 100 hours per month maximum and with that they have to give us 2 months off per year because you can't fly more than 1000 hours per annum. If you time out and go on leave, we still get paid. They have to compete in order to attract the pilots.

Also, on top of the salary, when we work we get a uniform allowance + per diem for every overlay + a call out fee if we get called out from reserve.

They also provide substantial health cover. So the package is pretty good.

I wouldn't take the job if it was as you describe. Right now they are screaming for pilots and are even paying substantial retention bonuses. That's about 60K alone.

Where the seniority has an even bigger affect is when you are trying to bid for extra sectors to get over the 82 hours. The airline will let you fly up to 100 hours a month and some pilots bid for the extra hours because the of the penalty rates.

My fear is that if Coronivirus causes economic mayhem, they might reconsider things, but my contact reckons that isn't going to happen. According to him, they are going to take those they promised jobs to and according to him they are going to reinforce their pilot numbers even if they flying is educed for whatever reason because its better to have them on payroll now than chase their tails down the track like they are now. We'll see.

Actually I knew about certain hours being guaranteed to the pilots whether they fly or not once you are hired.

I didn’t make myself clear. What I wanted to say was, what happens should you be furloughed by the company with the Unions acceptance should they have too many pilots on the roster but are not flying because of many cancellations of flights? During furloughed, last man in, first man out based on seniority. I don’t believe there are any compensation from the company given. Perhaps some given from the pilot’s union and unemployment.

Anyway, let’s hope this does not turn into a pandemic, but it can turn on a dime the way things are going as the elderly are the most susceptible.

[Paphitis]

Stock markets globally are tumbling. Coronavirus is a good reason for some market correction. 10%-15% is just about right before it start going up again......slowly.

Yeh I know. Nothing exclusive to the USA but the Aviation Industry is very vulnerable to things like this. It's always the first industry to show signs of stress.

If the Coronavirus gets any worse and for a long period of time, it is possible you moving to the states may well be delayed as they will have surplus pilots if many flights are canceled. Seniority is everything in most jobs in the USA, regardless if it’s unionized or not. As you have stated, you will get most of the “shit”runs for the first few years, and the same again if you relocate to another hub. Let’s hope you do not get caught in this from the time you resign from your present job to the next one. It may be prudent for you to wait and see how the Coronavirus plays out before resigning and accepting your new position. As far as I know, most jobs in the USA are not on a guaranteed salary, but instead, earn as you work. If you are not flying and sitting home because lack of work, you don’t have a paycheque (paycheck). I don’t even think you will qualify for unemployment if you haven’t paid into it in sufficient amount yet.

It shouldn't last that long at the rate they are recruiting.

They want to employ something like 2000 pilots and with that kind of recruitment the seniority rank won't be too bad after a couple of years.

Either way, it doesn't phase me a great deal. It just means i will be outbid a few times, and won't get the plum slots unless my fatigue score is high in which case I will get the plum sectors anyway to reduce my fatigue. If we keep copping the red eyes, then our 4 day cycle turns to a 3 day cycle and we get an extra day off. It's all swings and round abouts in aviation.

I will be on salary paid out at 75 hours of flying at x rate. That's the minimum base salary even when you don't work,

When we work, the average flying hours is 82 hours per month paid out at x and if we exceed 82 hours it's double time but we can only do 100 hours per month maximum and with that they have to give us 2 months off per year because you can't fly more than 1000 hours per annum. If you time out and go on leave, we still get paid. They have to compete in order to attract the pilots.

Also, on top of the salary, when we work we get a uniform allowance + per diem for every overlay + a call out fee if we get called out from reserve.

They also provide substantial health cover. So the package is pretty good.

I wouldn't take the job if it was as you describe. Right now they are screaming for pilots and are even paying substantial retention bonuses. That's about 60K alone.

Where the seniority has an even bigger affect is when you are trying to bid for extra sectors to get over the 82 hours. The airline will let you fly up to 100 hours a month and some pilots bid for the extra hours because the of the penalty rates.

My fear is that if Coronivirus causes economic mayhem, they might reconsider things, but my contact reckons that isn't going to happen. According to him, they are going to take those they promised jobs to and according to him they are going to reinforce their pilot numbers even if they flying is educed for whatever reason because its better to have them on payroll now than chase their tails down the track like they are now. We'll see.

Actually I knew about certain hours being guaranteed to the pilots whether they fly or not once you are hired.

I didn’t make myself clear. What I wanted to say was, what happens should you be furloughed by the company with the Unions acceptance should they have too many pilots on the roster but are not flying because of many cancellations of flights? During furloughed, last man in, first man out based on seniority. I don’t believe there are any compensation from the company given. Perhaps some given from the pilot’s union and unemployment.

Anyway, let’s hope this does not turn into a pandemic, but it can turn on a dime the way things are going as the elderly are the most susceptible.

I'm not sure how unionized they are in the States or what influence the Unions have there.

No doubt if things were to change between now and when I am on property then the VISA pilots will be first to get the bullet.

But they also got to be very careful. They are probably better off taking those they have interviewed and offered jobs to and leave it at that for a while and wait for natural attrition and retirements. A big company can absorb it. At least I hope so.

Once you are on property and considering the expense paid for training, it wouldn't be in their best interest in letting pilots go. Even in a downturn because before you know it, the recovery could be around the corner.

[Kikapu]

Some airlines are asking their employees to take a month unpaid leave because of cancellations of flights due to Coronavirus.

[Paphitis]

Some airlines are asking their employees to take a month unpaid leave because of cancellations of flights due to Coronavirus.

OK I will take that into consideration. Thanks.

[Kikapu]

Some airlines are asking their employees to take a month unpaid leave because of cancellations of flights due to Coronavirus.

OK I will take that into consideration. Thanks.

If this continues, it will go from voluntary leave request to furloughs, being laid off without pay until things improve. Tough times for all the airline employees, especially to all the low seniority ones.

[Paphitis]

Some airlines are asking their employees to take a month unpaid leave because of cancellations of flights due to Coronavirus.

OK I will take that into consideration. Thanks.

If this continues, it will go from voluntary leave request to furloughs, being laid off without pay until things improve. Tough times for all the airline employees, especially to all the low seniority ones.

Very unlikely but you never know what's around the corner.

there are currently no reports that the airlines in the US have reduced their tempo, other than cancelling some flights to China, which is a decision the USA has made to avoid the spread of Coronavirus.

[Kikapu]

United Airlines announced that they are postponing the training of 23 new student pilots at the flight training school they have just bought about a month ago because of Coronavirus.

This is very significant, because it will takes these student pilots 18-24 months to complete their training at a total cost of about $2.5 million USD, which is nothing to a company like UA, so why postpone their training since they are not going to be ready for almost another 2 years?

It tells me that UA is not expecting a quick fix to the flight cancellation problems as there is no end in sight to Coronavirus, because it is a new virus not knowing how it is all going to play out.

8C78F906-F9E6-4965-9D53-860233200611.png

[Paphitis]

United Airlines announced that they are postponing the training of 23 new student pilots at the flight training school they have just bought about a month ago because of Coronavirus.

This is very significant, because it will takes these student pilots 18-24 months to complete their training at a total cost of about $2.5 million USD, which is nothing to a company like UA, so why postpone their training since they are not going to be ready for almost another 2 years?

It tells me that UA is not expecting a quick fix to the flight cancellation problems as there is no end in sight to Coronavirus, because it is a new virus not knowing how it is all going to play out.

8C78F906-F9E6-4965-9D53-860233200611.png

Maybe. I haven't heard anything.

[Kikapu]

I wasn’t for a second equating these student pilots program to yours. I am just surprised that UA would postpone 23 students now when the whole training program takes about 2 years. How much inconvenience could these 23 have on UA once qualified in 2 years, even if there was to be continued problems with Coronavirus?