Cyprus-Forum.com

[Maximus]

Anyway, its is obvious that the TC have to return a lot of property which they have been reluctant to do.

This is a major issue and a far cry from Mr-NG's redonkeylous opinion that the Tc's have to do far less than the Gc's to find a solution and the GC's have to work harder.

What is next on the list of major issues that need to be resolved to facilitate a united Cyprus?

Politics and "power sharing".

The TC's want a community veto against the GC community. They want disproportionate representation in all state organs that would give them 'effective' participation. They also want disproportionate "shares" in the treasury, some 30% or equal share with the GC community. For a community that is making up less than 10% of the population, This is crippling and more or less amounts to extortion at the expense of the remaining population. Furthermore, they want to remain segregated and control the number of GC's that can return or reside in their 'part of the island'.

The GC's simply want a democracy, one man one vote and everything else you would expect in a freely functioning democratic society.

Obviously, the former resembles something like an apartheid and the TC's (and Turkey) need to undergo a radical change of thinking to elevate their mentality on how the state should run in to the modern world.

Another major obstacle to finding a just and viable solution to the problem, maintained by the TC's and Turkey.

[Sotos]

Here is the video of the conference hall "Ktima Makenzy" being bulldozed last year.

It was build on TC land. The TC owners negotiated with the person who build the hall in order to sell the land to him, but they didn't agree on the price. So the court ordered for it to be bulldozed. And this BEFORE a solution. After a solution it goes without saying that the rights of all owners should be restored.

You can't confiscate the land of others for any reason. Only the state has the right to expropriate, and only for justified public facilities.

[repulsewarrior]

RH said,

An admirable sentiment .... all Cypriots as CYPRIOTS without the qualifier Greek or Turkish, but it will never happen!

...you "Greek"? You "Turk"? Yes, the ugly truth is that only about half of us are Cypriot.

"it will never happen"; i don't think so. And if you wish it, it's as simple as that, just "be" Cypriot.

...so you went to a house with a lady, met another lady, and the drama that unfolded, is the story of Cyprus? There are thousands of stories, and they may have similarities, i'll grant you that, but are they all the same story? Obviously not, if you take the time to think about it, a number of scenarios exist and could have happened, not one.

...indeed, the door, the welcoming, says a lot about the person inside, says something of the person knocking, whether Turkish, or "Turk", one cannot assume as people that their reaction would be the same, as such, either. Individuals are Individuals. If you want to judge Persons, it cannot be based on any single Individual's act. And in judging an Individual as a Person, it says as much about the Person who is judging.

...yes, you see a lot of Flags of Greece, in Cyprus, a Greek in an overwhelmingly Greek population who is proud of being Greek, is he "Greek"? Cypriots, Greeks as some of them are fly this Flag too.

...yes, i remember the Occupy movement, which took over the land in the buffer zone; it was a proud day for me to see hundreds of Flags from children across the island, in Solidarity with their older siblings, it was a proud day for all of us, because there was just one Flag that flew, the Flag of Cyprus, our Flag as Cypriots, that represents all of us in unity defending the Principals which define us as Human beings. This Flag, as "Greeks" and "Turks" would have it is not a rag.

I have suggested that there is, in Mr. Akinci's power, given his position as it is (in an election), the ability to demonstrate just which Flag he stands with, (given that this election will be "a kind of referendum",) and just how committed he is to his ideals. If it is not the Flag of Cyprus, who does he betray? If it is the Flag of Cyprus, who would join him? I think we will see that Cypriots, when they fly the Flag of Cyprus, as always, it is an expression of powerful sentiments. Frankly, if my fantasy is realised, Akinci standing under the Flag of Cyprus, isn't it Heroic? (And frankly it pisses me off that the reality is, in the occupied territories at least, flying this Flag may get you shot.)

...food for thought RH, cheers; food for all of us.

[Paphitis]

Why do you assume that the woman was Turkish and not Turkish Cypriot ?

I didn’t assume anything, Erolz. I just repeated what RH stated in his post, that’s all.

RH's initial description of the woman was

The ‘Turkish’ lady occupant

Why do you think he used quotes round the word Turkish in that description ? To me it seemed clear that he used the quotes to denote some degree of ambiguity over her actual status. Yet you then went on to describe her as a Turk that had come from another country to live in Cyprus as if that was known and definite fact.

And if you continued reading RH’s long post, he states very clearly later her being a Turkish woman without any ambiguity.

Yes further on he drops the quotes but to me that just seemed like 'brevity' ? That he does so still does not account for the use of them in the first instant does it ? Why do you think in the first instance he used quotes ? For no reason at all ?

Robin Hood, brevity and common sense shouldn't be used in the same sentence.

[Robin Hood]

Why do you assume that the woman was Turkish and not Turkish Cypriot ?

I didn’t assume anything, Erolz. I just repeated what RH stated in his post, that’s all.

RH's initial description of the woman was

The ‘Turkish’ lady occupant

Why do you think he used quotes round the word Turkish in that description ? To me it seemed clear that he used the quotes to denote some degree of ambiguity over her actual status. Yet you then went on to describe her as a Turk that had come from another country to live in Cyprus as if that was known and definite fact.

And if you continued reading RH’s long post, he states very clearly later her being a Turkish woman without any ambiguity.

Yes further on he drops the quotes but to me that just seemed like 'brevity' ? That he does so still does not account for the use of them in the first instant does it ? Why do you think in the first instance he used quotes ? For no reason at all ?

Robin Hood, brevity and common sense shouldn't be used in the same sentence.

Try looking in the mirror .... if anyone on this forum lacks common sense ..... it is without question you. As for brevity? I write .... you cut and paste or post cartoons! Do you see the difference?

My post was by design NOT political, it is idiots like you that have tried to make it so .... that is why The Cyprus Problem is a no go area for me ...... it is a problem for Cypriots and ONLY Cypriots!

[erolz66]

If you accept something which you know is stolen then you are just as criminal as the one who stole it.

Is taking away a communities legal constitutional rights, outside of any legitimate legal process, not stealing ?

[Kikapu]

I have no idea for his reasons in using quotes in one instance and not the second or third. It left everything for interpretation for the reader to make, right or wrong. At the same time, you yourself cannot reach a conclusion that she was not a Turk in the form she was described by RH, and yet you want to believe she is not a Turk but a TC, which would bring a different sets of sentiments to the discussion. I am not calling you out in your interpretation because the use of quotes in one instance, so I don’t know what gives you the moral standing in calling me out on my interpretation without the use of quotes. Regardless which is correct and which is not, at the end of the day, the reaction of the GC Lady would have been the same, so how much further do you want to stretch this, Erolz?

But I did not state categorically that she must have been a TC and not a Turkish main lander. I accepted that it was ambiguous. She could have been either as far as I interpreted RH post and initial use of quotes. To me it was unknown. Now clearly some think it is irrelevant in any case but it seems that you do not think this and nor do I in the context of your reply. I have no moral standing, no superiority. I just accepted it was ambiguous and that is why I questioned your interpretation that seemed sure she was Turkish and not Turkish Cypriot. I do not see that as 'calling you out'. I sought clarification in case I had missed something. I am sorry that appears to have upset you.

No Erolz, you have not upset me in the least. It will take much more than this to get me upset.

I have given you my reasons as to why I interpreted the lady being Turkish and not TC, because I used the direct and unambiguous description of the lady by HR. You on the other hand used the indirect and ambiguous description of the lady by HR. While you were left in the “fog” to her nationality by choosing the ambiguous statement, I was in “clarity” with my choosing of the unambiguous statement. It is not to say that the conclusion of her nationality were correct or incorrect regardless which of the ambiguities were used by either one of us, but the fact that you wanted to use the ambiguous statement to make your argument, you have failed to see the other side of the unambiguous statement. It is like a prosecutor who would use only the unsubstantiated evidence he feels he needs to convict someone in a court of law and ignore more substantive evidence which may actually acquit someone from prosecution.

[erolz66]

I have given you my reasons as to why I interpreted the lady being Turkish and not TC, because I used the direct and unambiguous description of the lady by HR. You on the other hand used the indirect and ambiguous description of the lady by HR. While you were left in the “fog” to her nationality by choosing the ambiguous statement, I was in “clarity” with my choosing of the unambiguous statement. It is not to say that the conclusion of her nationality were correct or incorrect regardless which of the ambiguities were used by either one of us, but the fact that you wanted to use the ambiguous statement to make your argument, you have failed to see the other side of the unambiguous statement. It is like a prosecutor who would use only the unsubstantiated evidence he feels he needs to convict someone in a court of law and ignore more substantive evidence which may actually acquit someone from prosecution.

As I see it

For there to be no ambiguity there has to be no ambiguity. You just ignore the ambiguity that was and is and always will be there in the post in order to reach the conclusion you did. Yet the ambiguity is still there in the post regardless of you choosing to ignore it. The use of quotes was not a mistake or an accident, it was done with some kind of specific intent.

[Maximus]

If you accept something which you know is stolen then you are just as criminal as the one who stole it.

Is taking away a communities legal constitutional rights, outside of any legitimate legal process, not stealing ?

You are now trying to present an apartheid as legit.

Those constitutional rights you are referring to are legally invalid.

You cant present legally invalid documents signed under duress in a court of law and expect it to fly. Kiks is bang on in his previous post about the way you perceive things.

This is the main reason why Cyprus has a problem.

If you are insinuating what I think you are insinuating, trying to sound clever, your mentality is part of the problem.

[Maximus]

Furthermore, according to a close associate of Akinci's,

he is aware of the existential threat for the Turkish Cypriots and he is trying to react against it. Given his comments in a Gaurdian newspaper interview.

This is what the Tc's collective mentality is yielding for them. Isolation, existential threats and searching for recognition and dignity in the world by trying to indignify others.

If they can fix their mentality before it is too late, they can avert winning the Darwin award.