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I'm fucking angry......

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Re: I'm fucking angry......

Postby Maximus » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:45 pm

MR-from-NG wrote:
Maximus wrote:
MR-from-NG wrote:
Maximus wrote:
MR-from-NG wrote:
For Max to ask me to ask myself why we are hated is like Hitler in the dock in the Hague asking the court to ask the Jews why they were gassed. Or another example, white man accused of racism in court telling the judge. Ask the fucking nigger why he deserves to be discriminated against. Crazy. :shock: :shock:


no its not, its like Nelson Mandela asking you why you are ignoring your apartheid and racist ways towards the GC's.

You also ignore all the property that should be returned, bringing yourselves up to democratic first world standards and the mosque not trying to usurp GC property on top of it all.

Kiks is right about that racist flag on the mountain.

this is to mention just a few things but we also have the TC's trying to gift other bits of Cyprus and her EEZ to Turkey. I can go on if I thought about it.

"You" are blind to your own rogue behavior, intolerance and hatred.

Whatever, the education system, the church and people teach their kids about the history of Cyprus might be true. To be honest, Turks are not held in much esteem anywhere outside of Pakistan. They are responsible for their actions and behaviour and this is directly correlated to how others perceive them. if the TC follow suit and do the same, then you will get their flees as well. You own that.


Max, with all due respect, I can see this escalating to the point of going back to 1571 so it's best I stop posting. One thing though. What has Pakistan being the only nation to like Turkey got to do with me? :evil: :evil:


No Mr,

My point was, that I presumed from your original post that the TC dinndu nuffin to the GC's.

And basically, I was correct. You dont think they did anything to invite it and you think they dont have to do much to rectify any wrong doing.

For fucks sake Max, it takes two to tango. I've said it so many times, TC's are not angels. Ok, tell me what the TC's do to "invite it"? Explain what we did to invite what.


They basically steal property from them.

They also extort them and the state by demanding disproportionate "shares" and representation from the treasury and in government. This is only possible by aligning with Turkey.

They basically trying to run an apartheid and acting like colonialists.

The fact of the matter is, the TC think they can lord it over the GC's with Turkeys help and they dont treat them with any respect.

:roll:
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Re: I'm fucking angry......

Postby repulsewarrior » Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:17 am

MR-from-NG wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:
MR-from-NG wrote:
repulsewarrior wrote:...and you can count on those who think the world is free for them to plunder, will resist; this is natural.

What is important to remember is that "we" are individuals, it as as persons where we may find comfort, but acts are done by you, whether it is "you" that you're doing it for or not. That is the Problem; it has no "Greek" or "Turk" in its solution, nor should it, we are Human beings (and not just Persons).

Having my Faith in Love as an infinite power, i/I do not despair, i serve willingly. Cyprus will be Free, because this too is natural. Having made my choice i do not regret "being" a Cypriot, not "Greek", not "Turkish", although it is difficult not feeling welcome by Greeks and Turks who have bought into the mythical reality that "their" side is completely right in any case.

We need good intentions. If "we" are to resist "them", let's make it clear, in Cyprus; it is not about Greeks against Turks, it is not even about "Greeks" against "Turks", it is about Greeks/Turks against "Greeks"/"Turks".

RW, you lived in a mixed village and only have good things to say about your TC neighbours. You are not the problem, the problem is those kids that go through your education system and those that listen to conman priests.


...the Problem is that Greeks allow "Greeks" to represent them, because they are against "Turks". The Problem is that Turks do the same thing to Greeks, with "Turks". The Problem is that Greeks and Turks must recognise that their adversary in this Problem are not each other, but the hateful enterprise as it exists of those "others".

...just ''be'' Cypriot, and realise that ''Greeks'' and ''Turks'' are the same; and that "they" are not Cypriot.

...we must stop labeling each other; "This" must stop.

...it has nothing to do with schools, it is a cheap excuse, or priests; it is up to you (and every one of us, accordingly).

...i have good things to say about my neighbours because i recognise that these neighbours deserve this esteem. There are neighbours, "Greek" and "Turkish" too, but why dwell on them? Who "wins" if i do that?

...and yes, a President that refuses to stand beside the Flag of Cyprus is just plain wrong to me, (especially if they are calling for Constitutional reform as well,) just like the flags on the mountain; it is from ignorance such as it is.

You make a point but I cannot agree with you regarding your schools and priests. You go to school and you are taught 2 plus two is 4 and 2 times two is 4. This is absolute fact and can never be questioned. If the next teacher repeatedly tells me Turks are evil, Turks are barbarians, murderers then that is fact for me, an undeniable fact.

I heard a story when the borders first opened. It is rumoured that a TC with good command of the Greek language saw a little kid pulling at her mothers dress and saying mum, mum, they are just like us, they don't look evil like you've been telling me. They look like us mum and I'm not scared one bit. I wasn't there but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it was indeed true.


...and so what? Are you telling me all Greeks can be described by this event; true or false, just gossip? This is what changed you from a Cypriot to a "Turk" (or "Turk" supporter)? You/''you'' have a long way to go, to ''be'' a Cypriot, it seems.

Schools can do better in Cyprus, and they will, when children learn the History of where they live, as Cypriots, and where they learn of the Modern History that tore them apart, as such.

You demean yourself if you believe, the politics of division is not taught at schools in the occupied territories, who is "right" who is "wrong", or that Turkey is not doing its very best to have Turkish Cypriots completely assimilated, becoming something very different as "Cypriot Turks". Indeed, this should be your issue, (as a Turkish Cypriot) you can blame the "Greeks" if you like, but without the Greeks, against the "Turks", that is on you, if instead, (as a Cypriot) you choose to substantiate these myths with your agreement.

Indeed, the Republic is not racist as an institution, although there are "Greeks" within it, and it needs reform. The regime in the occupied north on the other hand serves only one interest, in affect neither Turkish Cypriots, or Cypriots in general, but its own.

Furthermore, Max states facts, not gossip. His harshness as such is most disagreeable; in any case these issues cannot be dismissed by your frustration with them (or him). Something fair for the displaced, all of them, from '63 and '74, should be our first priority, Justice seen, something we will all agree upon that all of us can do, not just for them but for all of us. I have suggested that enclaves are not a dirty word, and if they spot the whole island as it is, it provides for both constituencies to provide their services island-wide. Even if the "Green Line" remains, little changed, it is no border, to Cypriots, but a frontier not unlike the many other that would exist. Communities can return, as they left. New communities can be established as well. In any case, free movement, association, and expression, are vastly improved, if as Cypriots, Cypriot Constituencies demonstrate their capacity to recognise and respect, that while they hold the Agenda as a majority, they must provide for the special needs of their minorities as well.

Small minded the Cypriot who believes that Cypriots are not a power of significance, as Cypriots; as Individuals, not just as Persons. It is in effect a no-brainer to surmise that the social economy of Cyprus, its prosperity and the wealth of its People, would be much more, united.
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Re: I'm fucking angry......

Postby Kikapu » Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:02 am

MR-from-NG wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
MR-from-NG wrote:
Maximus wrote:
MR-from-NG wrote:
Maximus wrote:
MR-from-NG wrote:
Maximus wrote:I suppose the TC's dinndu nuffin to Cyprus and the GC's 50 + years ago and they are doin nuffin now..

You probably missed this bit in my post Max " Seriously dude, more effort is needed on both sides rather thinking the world has changed for the better since 62.
I'm not claiming TC's are angels but it would be fair to say GC's need to work a little bit harder than TC's to find a balance.


No, you are saying that "the balance" is out of wack because of the GC's and the TC's dont have to do nuffin for it to be regained.

Maybe you can be more specific and tell us, what the Gc's have to do to find the balance?

By balance I meant mutual tolerance, love and respect. You could start with your schools and churches. The parents will hopefully follow suit.


I can agree with the first sentence, generally speaking but the second and third sentence is just diabolical perpetuated myths.

OK, so what do the TC's need to do?

Come on Max. You are beginning to sound like Sotos. Why live in denial? Are you denying your schools are teaching you from a young age to see us as your enemies? Are you denying your army bases have soldiers shouting at the top of their voices "A good Turk is a dead Turk". Can you deny the church is as powerful as your government and will not agree to any meaningful settlement to the Cyprus problem.

What the TC's have to do is very little in comparison. Our schools don't teach to hate, our mosques are hardly frequented by TC's so you have very little to worry about.

MR, the biggest goodwill the TCs can do to receive the most from the GCs in return, is to bring down those flags from the mountain, which offends the GCs Day & Night. I know some TCs and Turks love to piss the GCs off, but it does very little to curb any hate feelings towards the TCs by the GCs. Just my opinion.

Yes I agree Kicks and if you check some of my past posts I even suggested starting a campaign to do this. I even started making enquiries both here in the UK and in Cyprus and was told to be cautious as the flags are financed by a few wealthy Greek hating businessmen in the UK and I could get in trouble

Kicks, we are no shrinking Violets but having said that we are no match to our GC cousins when it comes to racism and hatred towards an ethnic group.

For Max to ask me to ask myself why we are hated is like Hitler in the dock in the Hague asking the court to ask the Jews why they were gassed. Or another example, white man accused e are a lot of racist cunts to go around on both sides of the divideof racism in court telling the judge. Ask the fucking nigger why he deserves to be discriminated against. Crazy. :shock: :shock:


MR, there are plenty of racist cunts to go around from both sides of the divide and it is no use trying to find what came first, “the chick or the egg”. Manufacturing hate is very easy as no proof is needed, but just a hearsay is enough. Cyprus is engulfed in hateful events as well as made up hateful claims. I am not going to list any as it serves no purpose other than help those who make a living to push their racist agendas.

Just today I saw a short video of the female leader of the IYI party in Turkey where she was going on and on about Cyprus being Turkish. What a cunt.

Yes, I do remember you being against the flags being on the mountain.
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Re: I'm fucking angry......

Postby Sotos » Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:14 pm

Segregation and discrimination between Greeks (Christians) and Turks (Muslims) was happening since the era of the Ottomans, on our expense. A few decades after the end of Ottoman rule, in the 1950s, the TCs were demanding partition with ethnic cleansing, which is the ultimate in segregation. Today and for the last several decades the Turkish side is trying to essentially legalize this ethnic cleansing and forced segregation. So to say that GCs are more racist is not supported at all by the facts.

It is your side which has always wanted to remain segregated and separate from us, with the aim to gain on our expense. As you say in your story your friend didn't mind the segregation per se, he was bothered only when he realized that this specific segregation was on the expense of TCs. If it was on the expense of GCs, as it was the case in the majority of our common history, then this segregation wouldn't be a problem to him.
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Re: I'm fucking angry......

Postby Sotos » Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:19 pm

MR-from-NG wrote:Come on Max. You are beginning to sound like Sotos. Why live in denial? Are you denying your schools are teaching you from a young age to see us as your enemies?


Aren't you? The north part of our country is occupied by Turkish troops and you are using the Turkish military to blackmail us in accepting an unfair, racist, undemocratic "solution" that would legalize the Turkification of the north.
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Re: I'm fucking angry......

Postby erolz66 » Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:55 pm

Sotos wrote:Segregation and discrimination between Greeks (Christians) and Turks (Muslims) was happening since the era of the Ottomans, on our expense. A few decades after the end of Ottoman rule, in the 1950s, the TCs were demanding partition with ethnic cleansing, which is the ultimate in segregation. Today and for the last several decades the Turkish side is trying to essentially legalize this ethnic cleansing and forced segregation. So to say that GCs are more racist is not supported at all by the facts.

It is your side which has always wanted to remain segregated and separate from us, with the aim to gain on our expense. As you say in your story your friend didn't mind the segregation per se, he was bothered only when he realized that this specific segregation was on the expense of TCs. If it was on the expense of GCs, as it was the case in the majority of our common history, then this segregation wouldn't be a problem to him.


http://www.hellenicaworld.com/Cyprus/Hi ... eriod.html

The second important result of the Ottoman occupation benefited the Greek peasants who no longer remained serfs of the land they were cultivating. Now they could acquire it against payment, thus becoming owners of it. The Ottomans also applied the millet system to Cyprus, which allowed religious authorities to govern their own non-Muslim minorities. This system reinforced the position of the Orthodox Church and the cohesion of the ethnic Greek population. The Church of Cyprus was liberated because the Turks were afraid of the presence of the Catholic Church as it might instigate an attack of Western Europe against them. Gradually the Archbishop of Cyprus became not only religious but ethnic leader as well, something the Turks promoted wanting to have somebody responsible for the loyalty of the Greek flock. In this way the Church undertook the task of the guardian of the Greek cultural legacy which is partly carried on even in our days, although diminished after independence.


Between 1572 and 1668 AD about 28 bloody uprisings took place on the island and in many of these both Greeks and Turks (poor Turks were also exploited by the ruling class) took part. But all of them ended in failure.


In addition what was worse for the Greeks and Turks of the island, the newly- appointed Pasha, doubled the taxes in 1764 AD. In the end Chil Osman and 18 of his friends were killed by Greek and Ottoman Cypriots alike but the two ethnic elements had to pay a huge sum of money to the Sultan and the families of the victims. It was assessed that each Christian had to pay 14 piastres and each Turk 7. The latter did not accept this judgement and broke into an open rebellion having Khalil Agha, the commander of the guard of the castle of Kyrenia as their leader. Finally the uprising was crushed and Khalil Agha was beheaded.


imo

It is easy to chose a (hi)story of 500 years of conflict between Greek (victims) and Turkish/Ottoman (oppressors). Personally I chose to not ignore the (hi)story of poor oppressed Cypriots , both Greek and Turkish, struggling and fighting together as Cypriots against oppression by an elite made up of both Greek and Turkish/Ottoman rulers. Imo it is about choice. I chose, or chose to focus / highlight, the story of Cypriot unity and not those of division.
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Re: I'm fucking angry......

Postby Sotos » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:31 pm

erolz, there are stories and then there is history. Stories are things like what MR-from-NG wrote ("a friend told me..."), history is (should be) more about looking at the whole rather than picking and choosing just specific parts. My argument is that Greek Cypriots didn't invent discrimination and segregation, nor they are more racist as MR-from-NG said.

I do not disagree that over a specific era TCs faced racism and discrimination from GCs. This doesn't mean that all GCs were racists or that during this era there were no counter-examples. At the same time however there have been other eras, which as a matter of fact were longer, where the opposite was true. I don't think we need to present a story of unity or division. I think we should just be objective and whatever the past might have been, agree that for the future we need to do the right thing. And the right thing I hope we should all agree is that racism and segregation is wrong.
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Re: I'm fucking angry......

Postby Sotos » Tue Feb 18, 2020 8:38 pm

congrats for your wedding by the way! After 25 years of living together I would assume that you have decided that marriage is unnecessary. So I wonder what changed after all this time. You finally realized that you would make your life easier by giving in and signing the contract? ;)
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Re: I'm fucking angry......

Postby erolz66 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:14 am

Sotos wrote:erolz, there are stories and then there is history. Stories are things like what MR-from-NG wrote ("a friend told me..."), history is (should be) more about looking at the whole rather than picking and choosing just specific parts. My argument is that Greek Cypriots didn't invent discrimination and segregation, nor they are more racist as MR-from-NG said.

I do not disagree that over a specific era TCs faced racism and discrimination from GCs. This doesn't mean that all GCs were racists or that during this era there were no counter-examples. At the same time however there have been other eras, which as a matter of fact were longer, where the opposite was true. I don't think we need to present a story of unity or division. I think we should just be objective and whatever the past might have been, agree that for the future we need to do the right thing. And the right thing I hope we should all agree is that racism and segregation is wrong.


For me the Cyprus problem is not one of racism. It is one of identity. For me if we genuinely seek a united Cyprus then we have to chose to want a Cyprus where TC are wanted and needed and not just tolerated and chose to believe this because they are an inherent component of what makes Cypriots Cypriot. We need to chose to believe that the loss of TC in Cyprus is a loss of part of what makes us Cypriots, And visa versa.
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Re: I'm fucking angry......

Postby erolz66 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:40 am

Sotos wrote:congrats for your wedding by the way! After 25 years of living together I would assume that you have decided that marriage is unnecessary. So I wonder what changed after all this time. You finally realized that you would make your life easier by giving in and signing the contract? ;)


I / we never understood the 'point' of marriage. Of making a public deceleration of a prediction of our future fidelity. I / we believe that actions matter, not words and promises that are all to often unkept and unkeepable. What motivated us to get married after 25 years together, in the first instance, was entirely for 'prosaic' and practical reasons. Citizenship, wills, tax status etc etc. Our wedding was not a pledge and celebration of an imagined future that may or may not manifest. It was a celebration of the 25 years we had already been together and a celebration of the myriad bonds of love between family and friends that brought a group of people together for such celebration in what for many was the other side of the world.
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