Cyprus-Forum.com

[bg_turk]

BgTurk, maybe also they'll start paying us compensation for rounding us off into small enclaves, burning our villages and killing our people for 15 years, I mean fair is fair if they have grievences they have to realise our grievences are theres Multiplied by 100.

P.s, it writes your in Bulgaria? are you there? my Uncle has been he said there were loads of Turks there lol, jeeez were everywhere.

Yep, there are around a million turks in Bulgaria. Around 50,000 in Macedonia, and 200,000 in Greece. We are indeed everywhere

You propose that all greek cypriots must be punished for the actions of their leadership and a few extremists. I personally believe that individuals cannot be held responsible for collective actions, and I would like to see the TRNC provide GCs with means to restore their home and properties under the jurisdiction of the TRNC with decisions taken by TRNC courts.

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

BgTurk
Yep, there are around a million turks in Bulgaria. Around 50,000 in Macedonia, and 200,000 in Greece. We are indeed everywhere

You propose that all greek cypriots must be punished for the actions of their leadership and a few extremists. I personally believe that individuals cannot be held responsible for collective actions, and I would like to see the TRNC provide GCs with means to restore their home and properties under the jurisdiction of the TRNC with decisions taken by TRNC courts.

Masallah gardas, 1 million, I heard about a policy Bulgarians had a few years ago of forced assimilation and ethnic violence but my Turkish Bulgarian friend tells me that now Turks have a party and things are getting better, whats your opinion?

I think those who are guilty should be punished, wether they are Turk or Greek it shouldnt be solely pinned on Turks bro thats my opinion because as much as Greeks feel angered they must realise so do the Turks.

Comprimise is whats essential, I believe Turkish Cyprus and Greek Cyprus should be accepted as two states as its the logical step to take, those who have suffered be compensated in the courts, that Greek and Turkish Cyprus normalises relations, engages in diplomacy and trade relations as most neighbour states well not most but alot seem capable of doing.

[Tony-4497]

Mustafa_Pasha

Turks tend to refer to EOKA and intercommunal violence in Cyprus in the 60s in order to justify the illegal invasion and continuing occupation of half of Cyprus.

What Turks conveniently neglect to mention is how it all started. Turkey had stated the aim of partition of Cyprus ("taksim") decades before the violence started, as it considered Cyprus a key strategic location for her defence and expanionist plans (many statements by Turkish leaders support this - which I will provide if anyone doubts this).

Turkey set up the TMT terrorist group in 1957, 3 years before the 1960 agreements, and BEFORE ANY intercommunal violence took place. The stated aim of TMT was to prove that Greek and Turkish Cypriots could not co-exist and thus achieve partition.

The FIRST EVER intercommunal killings were those of 8 Gr-Cypriots in Kondemenos, by TMT, in 1958. I CHALLENGE YOU or any Turk here to contradict this with an earlier example. Denktash, a leader of TMT, admitted that TMT BOMBED TURKISH CYPRIOTS and then blamed it on Gr-Cypriots to cause violence. Also, TMT KILLED MANY TURKISH CYPRIOTS who would not follow her orders to isolate themselves from Gr-Cypriots, including many journalists.

The following is from the Tr-Cypriot newspaper Africa (12.02.03):
"Subtitle: How clashes started
After a bomb against the Information Office of the Turkish Consulate, on 12 June 1958 British security forces arrested 8 Greek Cypriots at Kondemenos village and transported them to the nearest Turkish Cypriot village Gunyeli, about 10 kilometres, and left them free. By order of TMT these Greek Cypriots were massacred by Turkish Cypriots. This was the first incident whereby blood was shed between the two communities. This massacre has been committed with the intention that the Greek Cypriots will retaliate. Behind this provocative murders there were people whom Denktas called "some of our friends". Mr Denktas admitted during statements to a British television that TMT was responsible for the bombing incident". "

[Tony-4497]

No, the borders stay as they are today, its all settled now end of story.

Make no mistake - whatever the eventual solution is, there is no chance that an 18% minority will be allowed to keep 37% of Cyprus.

18% should be the maximum you will get if 2 states are to be recognised.

If you think that just because you conquered by force and ethnically cleansed 37% of Cyprus you can keep it, then we will have no option but wait until we are able to fight and take back our land.. and in the meantime both Turkey and TCs can forget all about ever entering the EU.

[Piratis]

You need help man, 15 years of suffering Ethnic Cleansing 15 YEARS innocent people were killed, attacked and abused by EOKA Terrorists and at that time there was no war, the ONLY agressor was the Greek Junta.

15 YEARS? WOW, this must be really long time to write it in capitals ah?

Well the illegal Turkish occupation of Cyprus continues for more than 31 YEARS and the Ottoman oppression of Greek Cypriots was for 3 centuries.

Even in those 15 years that you talk about you conveniently forget that an equal amount of GCs and TCs have been killed. However in the Turkish invasion, in just days, you killed an additional 6000 Greek Cypriots, which is a death toll way more than the 15 previews years combined!

So when in Cyprus you were the ones committing the crimes the 99% of the time, stop giving lame excuses as to why you should be allowed to continue the crimes against us.

Anyways, I will not waste more time on you propaganda such as the Ottomans were the liberators of Greek Cypriots etc. Fortunately for us a lot more nations have suffered under the Ottomans and everybody can understand that you are just talking crap, like a usual brainwashed Turk.

[Perastikos]

After ethnarxis Makarios(paparxidas as Dr Mikelidis call him ) call the Turks to bring stability in the area, the Turks come here for tourism not for war.

I'm from a nationalist family, one of my uncle he was a member of eoka b and he told me what the Turks have no intention to make war they have come to walk until to divide to two zones and protect their people from the Greek madness and bring stability, but Sampson this ridicules president, order to attack the inventors and that’s how our people killed.

All ways the big ideals shits is like a boomerang.

I can say a name of the man who told me that and i can say a lot of names that support the same thing but is better not to, because they don't deserve to characterize as traitors because they say the truth.

I don’t say what Turks are angels but the sure thing is what we are a small team of fools who deserves a piece of shit.

I’ve to agree what Turks are brainwashed (more of them) but unfortunately to tell such a think I’ve have to tell exactly the same about as.

Our basic characteristic except villa milla and panigiri is our ignorance.

The ottomans ruled Greeks Christian remaining with the blessings of our church who become our rulers.

The discasting men in black agree with ottomans to come and occupied as because there was for them the best chance they have to keep their authority in our stupid brains.

I can search and find you what this ridiculous and discasting men in black have say for the Greek revolution of 1821.

But i can say you what the malakopitouras papas of Constantinople say about the revolution of 1821.

He says what it was a big fault of the Greeks because we was much better with the ottomans ruling.

Because in this situation they was having all the authority. They was the politic and religious rulers in a theocratic system and they have loose some of the authority they used to have.

The point of the TC friend is what we first ill from the nationalistic bullshits and we cause this distraction because our foolishness .

I’m not justified the Turks but I have to speak first about our stupidity.

Like Jesus says “o anamartitos protos ton litho valeto” and we are not angels.

I’m not a Christian but I’ve found many things in New Testament and in the old that i agree with.

The new testament have a wonderful philosophical morph called Jesus and also have another Judaist morph called Jesus to.

The Jesus mad cruel ruler and the Jesus philosopher are two different things.

The mad Jesus says bring my enemies and slaughter them in front of me.

And the philosopher Jesus said love your enemy.

I prefer the second Jesus.

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

Damn, the amount of brainwashing certain people have endured it deeply disturbing

Tony
Turks tend to refer to EOKA and intercommunal violence in Cyprus in the 60s in order to justify the illegal invasion and continuing occupation of half of Cyprus.

TEND TO, where've you been living, its a known FACT that 15 years of being slaughtered by EOKA Terrorists simply became unbearable and then the threats of wiping every single Turk of the Island, well it doesnt leave alot to be desired

The Liberation was Legal, as I said go and read up on your International Law under Treaty IV Turkiye has Legal Guaranteur Right over Cyprus to protect her people. Our people were being slaughtered, my families home was razed to the ground and we were put in an enclave, if it wasnt for those Greek Junta terrible people I could still be living in Cyprus and not have to keep moving back and forward between London and Turkish Cyprus.

So there was no Illegal Invasion, it was a Legal Liberation also land is determined via population its the most ridiculous theory I have ever heard, Bangladesh has a population of over 100 millionl, Turkmenistan has a population of around 8/9 million but is about 4 times the size, it will catch up soon but thats how it is now lol.

Our state is ensured, you have your state, get on with life be happy with what you have, dont make the mistake EOKA Terrorists Greek Junta made. Are you planning to launch your invasion soon lol grow up, were going nowhere get used to it.

Tony you can try and make any justifications all day long it doesnt change anything, Cyprus became a Nation in 1960, after this date did the violence against our people start, the EOKA Terrorist acts the Invasion of the Greek Junta, the ludacris plan to wipe every Turk off the Island, the stupid idea of tying the Island to mainland Greece.

If they hadnt resorted to such in-humane measures, Cyprus today would still be a nation.

Tony
then we will have no option but wait until we are able to fight and take back our land.. and in the meantime both Turkey and TCs can forget all about ever entering the EU.

Oooh threatening talk, you sound just like the Greek Junta in the 70's claiming they'd take the Turkish army to pieces, that it would be another Vietnam, that a single Turk wouldn't be left alive.

All empty words, you dont want another War, what are you going to fight with? why do you even put forth such ridiculous propositions, you want another war and wanna loose all your land. Go and and launch your invasion we'll be waiting, it will be like comitting suicide trying to enter a War with us Tony.

Piratis
the Ottoman oppression of Greek Cypriots was for 3 centuries

Oh your so confused Piratis, when the Ottomans arrived the Greeks were fighting with us against the Venetian Catholics didn't knowone ever tell you this lol.

We allowed you to worship your religion, we allowed you to have administrative roles and reach poistions of power, your church was very pleased, Turks and Greeks for the most part got along fine, tell me where was this imaginary oppression would you have rather lived under the Venetian Catholics?

Piratis
I will not waste more time on you propaganda such as the Ottomans were the liberators of Greek Cypriots etc. Fortunately for us a lot more nations have suffered under the Ottomans and everybody can understand that you are just talking crap

Really?

Is that why the Balkans are shouting we want back OSMANLI ADALET, who suffered? I mean your still Christian, you still speak your language we couldnt't have been that bad. Take a look at what the European forces did to Africans, in the America's, in Australia, in New Zealand, how many Native Americans still have their religion, languages and culture intact I wonder, how many of them today have nations and a place they can call home.

Wether you like it or not Ottomans were not nearly as bad as you make up, the Bosnians, Albanians, Kosovans, converted out of free-will to Islam, Poland has deep respect to this day for the Ottomans as when they were wiped off the face off the map we were the only state to still recognise them. Macedonians dont have a problem, Bulgarians are beginning to accept that Ottomans bought benefits, Palestine and Israel wish they could bring some stability which we bought to that region for 1000 years I could go on but there's no point its not like you'll listen, after all I'm just a Turk, just a stupid Barbarians what would I know and what right do I have to speak to a superior Greek


Pirastikas I just read your post, wow, really I respect you, you see if these are the Greek Cypriots I was exposed to I would welcome peace and good relations between us, this is so much more productive.

He says what it was a big fault of the Greeks because we was much better with the ottomans ruling.

Its a common myth to think of Ottomans as a Nationalistic Turkish Empire, under the Millet system Greeks were actually a protected people, your Patriarch ruled you we didnt because you didnt apply to Islamic/Kanun law which is a mix of Shariah and Secular Law.

Greeks had their Christian Laws and courts which were organised by their patriarch. The head of the Greeks would delegate with the Head of the Turks and Muslims the Ottoman Sultan.

Greeks were very wealthy in the Ottoman Empire, I mean really wealthy, do you not know of the Galata Bankers. Alot of Turks and Muslims didnt really enter these fields based upon reluctancies over Interest Rates and they were more involved in other fields of commerce and employment.

Greeks however, were had great proffessions, could be fully educated and had a wealthy ELITE, you guts were among the Elite of Ottoman society, so much so that when the Imperialist powers invaded the Balkans it wasnt a Greek they put in charge of the Greeks but a German King and infact by splitting from the Ottomans you lost wealth and power beyond means that you can imagine. You should read about the Macoveridas family who were very influencial.

I also prefer the Second Jesus in your list, Jesus (p.b.u.h) was a great prophet, whose strong ethos on humanitarian issues and great tolerance, love and teaching are LESSONS TO US ALL.

[Perastikos]

Its a common myth to think of Ottomans as a Nationalistic Turkish Empire, under the Millet system Greeks were actually a protected people, your Patriarch ruled you we didnt because you didnt apply to Islamic/Kanun law which is a mix of Shariah and Secular Law.

Greeks had their Christian Laws and courts which were organised by their patriarch. The head of the Greeks would delegate with the Head of the Turks and Muslims the Ottoman Sultan.

Greeks were very wealthy in the Ottoman Empire, I mean really wealthy, do you not know of the Galata Bankers. Alot of Turks and Muslims didnt really enter these fields based upon reluctancies over Interest Rates and they were more involved in other fields of commerce and employment.

Greeks however, were had great proffessions, could be fully educated and had a wealthy ELITE, you guts were among the Elite of Ottoman society, so much so that when the Imperialist powers invaded the Balkans it wasnt a Greek they put in charge of the Greeks but a German King and infact by splitting from the Ottomans you lost wealth and power beyond means that you can imagine. You should read about the Macoveridas family who were very influencial.

I also prefer the Second Jesus in your list, Jesus (p.b.u.h) was a great prophet, whose strong ethos on humanitarian issues and great tolerance, love and teaching are LESSONS TO US ALL.

I’ve not say the opposite.

I’ve say exactly the same thing.

but I’m not a Christian and I prefer Europe, don’t you?

My opinion is what Muslim and and Christianism are the same shit.

That’s why their like brothers before some years.

And after that years they was two separate business fighting for their piece of the pie.

I prefer the religion freedom of Europe.

We can speak about religions staff starting from the Egyptian Ermis Trismigestous until the Bedouins Alaha, I’ve made a lot of research in the religions and the religions i hate most are the Christians the Muslim the Judaism what is the main root from the previous two and the 12atheon or 12gods of Greece because it wasn’t religion but a chaos of bullshits.

I’m closer to Persian and premusulim religions.

But my basic believe is what you can find good and wrong in all religions and the spiritual freedom is based on that research.

This religions are based in the Egyptian god Toth and the teachings of Ermis Trismegistous.

He was the first who speak about angels and demons 9000 years before Christ.

I’m closer to the theosophical ideas (if you know for what I’m talking about).

But I’m truly independent researcher and is imposible for me to eat shit from Christians or from Musulims.

I can respect both of this religions when they respect me. Otherwise I have to fart back.

And a good closing is what the one morph of Jesus has said.

<The God is spirit and he is not living in houses builded by people hands. God leaving inside as.>

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

I agree with alot of what you say Mr Persitakos, however, I also believe that both Christianity and Islam are for Human Benefit and if we all actually read what we "say" we believe then we'd be in a much better poisition.

If Jesus (p.b.uh) and Muhammed (p.b.u.h) sat together at a table, they would be disgusted with what Human beings have done with their great examples.

Both religion are for Human Benefit, there for us for humans to better us but we dont seem to be capable of understanding this.

Look at the prophets, they were great examples of human beings.

The problem is those who

1. Blindly follow religion without even reading their holy books or trying to gather a true understanding of what is is they believe.

2. Pollitics, people who use and abuse religion to suit their pollitical needs and use it as a tool for their power.

If we were all tolerant, respectfull, wanted truth and justice, wouldnt stand for corruption, were against suffering, tried to help the poor and suffering etc etc etc we'd live in a much better world, after all the points I just listed are taught in all religions but we just dont aply to them sadly

[Perastikos]

I’m not surprised about your spirituality I’ve seen a (how you said it?) Hoja?

Anyway a Muslim priest talking with an absolutely stupid Christian priest and I still remember what they have say and the obvious deference.

Turkish priest: We are men of good and right we are looking the sky to found the justice and the piece that’s why we say yes to this plan(anan plan)

Malakopitouras(if you can understand just imagine what malakopitouras means) Geek Cypriot priest:

We want piece but this solution is no good and you have to understand what we are not saying no to you but to the plan.

And the same malakopitouras paparxidas axrios pordokaliergitis(don’t worry just imagine what the previous magic words means) he said what everyone vote yes to the plan of Anan will go to hell.

But I have to say again what no dogma represents the absolute.

Good and but are everywhere and both Christianism and Musulim have made big faults big crimes to the humanity.

I prefer a religion from the atheism but I wish for a more united religion in any case.

If we were all tolerant, respectful, wanted truth and justice, wouldnt stand for corruption, were against suffering, tried to help the poor and suffering etc etc etc we'd live in a much better world, after all the points I just listed are taught in all religions but we just dont aply to them sadly

I agree 100% on this and hope what some day we will be able to teach these things to our children in a united Cyprus.