Cyprus-Forum.com

[Maximus]

You dont need a humanitarian lawyer for a fraud case.

But you havent provided any further information about your situation.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

If the chap was defrauded, then he has 2 avenues available to him as fraud isn't just a civil matter, but criminal.

It is criminal .... full stop.

Therefore, his first port of call, is CYPOL. If he was defrauded of any money and has evidence, the person will be charged with fraud, raising money under false pretences and also for theft.

If you are not Cypriot with connections the chances are they will not lift a finger. You then have to raise a complaint against the Police and it is not easy to find a lawyer that will fight for you. Because to do that you have to go through the Attorney General’s Office ...... and even if you get that far it takes months ........... even years!

The second avenue open to him is to pursue the other guy with a civil case. However, he will need to ensure the other guy has assets which his lawyer can freeze. no point taking someone to court if they have no money for you to get back or retrieve. In addition, if CYPOL have pressed charges, and the offender has assets (like immovable property) or money in the bank, the courts can freeze some of those assets pending the outcome of the court trial if it gets that far. This will allow the court to reimburse and make amends to the victims losses.

Any charge which is a felony (i.e. punishable with a prison sentence) cannot be undertaken by an individual, it comes under the sole jurisdiction of the appropriate Authority ..... The Police. You may be able to have a civil judgement ‘set aside’ if there is a civil case that went against you because of the fraud. But the Police will not share their evidence, so the criminal case comes first and then a fresh civil application for a counter claim on the basis of that judgement.

You may not have noticed that civil judgements are very rarely overturned, they are ‘set aside’ ....... because a Judge is NEVER wrong!

Layers will not take a case unless there is money for them to pursue. Because even if they win, the victory is a hollow one.

Unless you are Cypriot, have connections and a lot of money ....... then your chances are slim to zero of ever getting justice. The Courts are not there to be fair and just, they are there to interpret the Law which is why the more money you have then the better your chances of buying ‘justice’, whether you are the plaintiff or the defendant.

Sorry Sam that you are having a tough time ...... but it's a hard slog to get justice, especially in Cyprus!

[Paphitis]

Yes it is criminal but it could be civil on top of that.

It depends on how the money was raised...whether it was raised for a business purpose for a proposed development or unscrupulous "developer"

I have a lot of experience about these matters including a law suit I am currently involved against a lawyer. They got served 2 months ago but now want to settle.

And secondly, Cyprus is not all that bad and CYPOL will prosecute as long as a case exists.

I don't believe there is a case here as I smell a rat. So no, CYPOL are not going to waste their time here.

And bull-dust you need connections and a lot of money.

I just had quite pleasurable dealings with a lovely female Lawyer over another matter in Cyprus. And it was really a pleasure. Good lawyer and a hell of a lot cheaper than Australia.

She was professional.

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

Yes it is criminal but it could be civil on top of that

What I am saying is that ‘fraud’ is a criminal offence and thus is the jurisdiction of the police. AFTER they have charged the offender, then you can start your civil claim. It’s very basic! To start a criminal investigation you need evidence that indicates ‘beyond reasonable doubt’, all you need for a civil case is ‘the greater probability’. If the police raise a charge on the first, then the second is a given.

It depends on how the money was raised........whether it was raised for a business purpose for a proposed development or unscrupulous "developer".

Try proving an 'unscrupulous developer' especially a Cypriot one! Again you would most probably need evidence or gain access to People/Institutions that, as an individual or even a lawyer, you would not be able to get.

I have a lot of experience about these matters including a law suit I am currently involved against a lawyer. They got served 2 months ago but now want to settle.

I also have firsthand experience in this aspect of Law .... and in Cyprus. I am speaking from recent experience and the legal system is both incompetent and corrupt. Example: the recent Metaxas serial killer ..... foreign women reported missing (7 in all) and the police did nothing ...... because they were not Cypriots! They just brushed the complaints aside until the first bodies floated up to the surface. (literally) End result was that the Chief of Police had to 'retire' ! Little has changed as the corruption is endemic within the system from top to bottom.

And secondly, Cyprus is not all that bad and CYPOL will prosecute as long as a case exists.

Not true! The Police will leap to action if they are prodded from above or have some interest in the case. If a foreigner makes a complaint against a Cypriot ...... they will drag their heels and you have to badger them or nothing gets done. Not so the other way round! There is a self serving corruption in the Police and I have seen it from both sides of the fence!

I don't believe there is a case here as I smell a rat. So no, CYPOL are not going to waste their time here.

You are adopting EXACTLY the attitude of the Police! You are pre-judging without having a clue as to the details and if ‘SAM’ is a foreigner then they won’t listen to him or take any notice of his evidence. He will have to go another route if he can find a lawyer tht will listen to him and take up his case ..... if indeed he has been defrauded and has enough evidence to makeit more likely than not!

And bull-dust you need connections and a lot of money.

It is exactly so in Cyprus and is where the ‘little brown envelope’ and 'favours' prevail and not just in the legal aspect but in any dealings with any Government department. Again I speak from experience although I have never resorted to bribery! I have met indifference even resistance, from ‘the front desk’ but seen an immediate change in attitude when they are faced with an authority from their own department or some higher authority. Once they know you have ‘Friends’ in positions of authority, their attitude changes completely.

My wife some years ago needed medical treatment abroad and we were on the State Health System! The NHS head office front desk said " You are not entitled ...... that is only available for Cypriot nationals". When we returned with a 'higher authority' of our acquaintance ........ every thing changed! In five days she had the appointment at the Athens clinic, flight and Hotel accommodation all booked ...... she flew for free and I even got a 20% discount on my airfare.

Paphitis, in the 25 years I have lived in Cyprus what I have learned is that, unless you are a Cypriot and/or you have a lot of money to spare ............ you need 'Friends I high places'!

[Paphitis]

It really depends how the money was raised.

If it was raised under false pretences and lies, then it's definateli Civil and also Criminal.

If it was an investment that went wrong, then its only Civil.

I am currently dealing with a civil matter involving an Option Agreement and the whole process has taken over 12 months to get to the stage I am at now and over 100K in fees.

I sustained a loss due to other parties not fulfilling their end of the deal, resulting in losses of 300K + legal + interest.

It's at the final stages now as I have a very water tight case and the other parties are now negotiating to pay all my losses and costs but they are fighting between themselves now arguing over percentages.

In the meantime, costs are increasing and I am charging them 6.5% in interest.

There was a possibility of a criminal element with one of the parties.

I have had a lot of dealings with lawyers RH, Right now I have a very notable lawyer and a QC because I have actually filed in the federal Court of Australia and we are fast approaching the first hearing but it's doubtful it will get that far.

Now the Australian Legal System, similar to most other countries is sadly built for the rich or well off. Litigation in Australia is tremendously expensive. Eye watering expensive. The QC is charging $5000 per day.

In Cyprus, the legal system I found to be a lot more user friendly and egalitarian. Still expensive but not like Australia and not even close to Australia.

So your little jab against Cyprus isn't fair.

I never had any litigation in Cyprus but I have employed a lawyer their for little tiny matters pertaining to property titles, and immovable property and probate and other similar things like that and I found that the lawyer I dealt with was quite superb. In fact, we are even friends now.

I know more about Cyprus than you do RH, and have quite a well connected family. Most Cypriots seem to be connected with someone as the place is tiny. Everyone has a koumbaro somewhere in the food chain but the law is the law. if there is a criminal element, CYPOL is obligated to act upon it. The person in question also hinted they were married to a Cypriot girl. Well, if that is true, she would know who way around.

he also mentioned he is ill. I wish the individual to stay well, but there are too many holes in his story. I can't prove it and therefore must give him the benefit of doubt and wish him well, because what he is saying could be true. But if it is the way he describes, his case is potentially a criminal case and he needs to see CYPOL about the matter and also a lawyer to retrieve his money if possible.

Someone who has that much money at stake would have entered into some contractual arrangement or agreement surely, so he needs to see a lawyer. Only they can point him in the right direction. Getting legal advice from a forum like this on whether the case is criminal or civil is fruitless as we do not know all the circumstances or facts.

[Maximus]

"Hit and run" thread...

[Robin Hood]

Paphitis:

So your little jab against Cyprus isn't fair.

I know more about Cyprus than you do RH, and have quite a well connected family. Most Cypriots seem to be connected with someone as the place is tiny. Everyone has a koumbaro somewhere in the food chain but the law is the law. Well, if that is true, she would know who way around.

You have rather missed the point! Neither 'SAM' or I are Cypriots! I have lived here for 25 years as a foreigner ..... how long have you actually lived here, not just a passing through event? I am giving my experiences as a foreigner living in Cyprus and you confirm what I am saying. You need money to get justice and in Cyprus it is essential to have ‘friends’! Cypriots have their ‘friends’ in the family ..... foreigners don’t.

If there is a criminal element, CYPOL is obligated to act upon it. The person in question also hinted they were married to a Cypriot girl.

If only that were true? It isn’t, and as a foreigner you soon find out that there are ‘laws’ for Cypriots and ’laws’ for foreigners. If you happen to be Western European and intelligent enough you can, to an extent, get around the prejudices but if you happen to be one of the thousands of house-maids or Eastern European/Syrian/Egyptian workers, you will find it tough and demoralising to deal with authority. Step out-of-line and they risk being unceremoniously deported.

I have not lived in the UK for some 35 years and I would not have a clue about life there in the years that have passed. Your experience of Cyprus daily life, I would suggest, is on a par with my current knowledge of what daily life in the UK is like now and that is very little.

[MR-from-NG]

Paphitis:

So your little jab against Cyprus isn't fair.

I know more about Cyprus than you do RH, and have quite a well connected family. Most Cypriots seem to be connected with someone as the place is tiny. Everyone has a koumbaro somewhere in the food chain but the law is the law. Well, if that is true, she would know who way around.

You have rather missed the point! Neither 'SAM' or I are Cypriots! I have lived here for 25 years as a foreigner ..... how long have you actually lived here, not just a passing through event? I am giving my experiences as a foreigner living in Cyprus and you confirm what I am saying. You need money to get justice and in Cyprus it is essential to have ‘friends’! Cypriots have their ‘friends’ in the family ..... foreigners don’t.

If there is a criminal element, CYPOL is obligated to act upon it. The person in question also hinted they were married to a Cypriot girl.

If only that were true? It isn’t, and as a foreigner you soon find out that there are ‘laws’ for Cypriots and ’laws’ for foreigners. If you happen to be Western European and intelligent enough you can, to an extent, get around the prejudices but if you happen to be one of the thousands of house-maids or Eastern European/Syrian/Egyptian workers, you will find it tough and demoralising to deal with authority. Step out-of-line and they risk being unceremoniously deported.

I have not lived in the UK for some 35 years and I would not have a clue about life there in the years that have passed. Your experience of Cyprus daily life, I would suggest, is on a par with my current knowledge of what daily life in the UK is like now and that is very little.

Excellent post RH. I shouted at the top of my voice making these points in the "serial killer" thread. All I got was abuse and insults from the GC members.It felt like being attacked by a pack of hyenas.

[MR-from-NG]

I'd like to add that a couple of novice detectives from any developed nation would have solved this crime before it reached the awful number of 7. The Cypriot police would've/could've also achieved this had the victims not been foreigners.

[Robin Hood]

I'd like to add that a couple of novice detectives from any developed nation would have solved this crime before it reached the awful number of 7. The Cypriot police would've/could've also achieved this had the victims not been foreigners.

I think the current 'Israeli' rape case is on much the same lines? That really does stink of high level manoeuvrings!