Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

It’s not easy and it never was meant to be. But it is a land of opportunity.

It is a land of opportunity but that opportunity is not equal in degree to all and merely based on personal effort and ability. Some to give one example are able to pay for a massively greater degree of opportunity for their children relative to others, even if they are lazy or lacking in skills and ability.

This is how 'opprtunity' works in a country like the UK



Now I am not saying I want a world where everyone starts from the same point, or such is even possible. I do however want one where this kind of thing is recognized and acknowledged, especially by those with all the advantages who get to win the race and not just denied entirely. One where we look to mitigate the worst degrees of such inequality of opportunity and not seek to ever increase them.

[cyprusgrump]

When you see migrants come to our countries with the shirts on their backs and end up working on a garbage run and then manage to get 3 rentals, then that tells you everything you need to know about the UK.

You can’t do that in most countries but in the UK, USA, Australia or Canada, you can do anything.

Those who get left behind have themselves to blame for not seeing the opportunities before them. For not taking a punt and having a go. For not going to school or learning a trade or starting a business whether that be buying a truck and being a removalist or a garbage truck or buying a fruit and veg shop.

Not everyone is going to be a Banking executive but there are many ways to make money and even make more money than executives do.

Recently I hired a removalist for an intra state removal. I paid $7500 for a truck. The truck owner operators were 2 Afghan brothers that have been in the country for 2 years. Great guys and hard working and both with families.

They told me they do 2 such trips per week or 4 across the border at 7.5 k each time. Turnover $22k per week. Minus expenses and running costs plus wages.

No shame in hard work and what counts is the cash you make and these guys are making more than a surgeon. These are the kinds of opportunities available.

But people will say they don’t have the cash to buy a truck. Well start thinking out of the box. Set up a Pty Ltd and form a business plan then see the Banks for a loan. The Banks are eager to lend the money as long as you have done your homework and present a reasonable business case to them and are willing to put down a small deposit. Sometimes they don’t even do that and there are low doc lending options too. Banks in the UK are easy to approach and do business with not like Cypriot Banks which have gone all stupid and an impediment to business.!

I would rather live in the UK than I would Cyprus if making money was my goal.

Precisely!

If I was working 7 hours a week (and not at all on the school holidays) and my family couldn't eat I wouldn't be sitting on my arse and begging for money...

Nor blaming the private school system, the elites, Fatcher, blah, blah, blah...

[Paphitis]

When you see migrants come to our countries with the shirts on their backs and end up working on a garbage run and then manage to get 3 rentals, then that tells you everything you need to know about the UK.

You can’t do that in most countries but in the UK, USA, Australia or Canada, you can do anything.

Those who get left behind have themselves to blame for not seeing the opportunities before them. For not taking a punt and having a go. For not going to school or learning a trade or starting a business whether that be buying a truck and being a removalist or a garbage truck or buying a fruit and veg shop.

Not everyone is going to be a Banking executive but there are many ways to make money and even make more money than executives do.

Recently I hired a removalist for an intra state removal. I paid $7500 for a truck. The truck owner operators were 2 Afghan brothers that have been in the country for 2 years. Great guys and hard working and both with families.

They told me they do 2 such trips per week or 4 across the border at 7.5 k each time. Turnover $22k per week. Minus expenses and running costs plus wages.

No shame in hard work and what counts is the cash you make and these guys are making more than a surgeon. These are the kinds of opportunities available.

But people will say they don’t have the cash to buy a truck. Well start thinking out of the box. Set up a Pty Ltd and form a business plan then see the Banks for a loan. The Banks are eager to lend the money as long as you have done your homework and present a reasonable business case to them and are willing to put down a small deposit. Sometimes they don’t even do that and there are low doc lending options too. Banks in the UK are easy to approach and do business with not like Cypriot Banks which have gone all stupid and an impediment to business.!

I would rather live in the UK than I would Cyprus if making money was my goal.

Precisely!

If I was working 7 hours a week (and not at all on the school holidays) and my family couldn't eat I wouldn't be sitting on my arse and begging for money...

Nor blaming the private school system, the elites, Fatcher, blah, blah, blah...

Neither would I Cyprusgrump.

If you have that attitude then you will find work or you will create work for yourself.

[Kikapu]

I believe most people are good at at least in one thing to make a living if the opportunity exists, who then from that point, they can move onto bettering themselves financially with other opportunities. One needs to start working somewhere to develop the working skills in making a living, which then becomes the driving force to move onto other things to make more money as we want more material things to makes us happy, especially true to young males in our society. Most people in all developed countries do succeed in taking care of themselves and their families financially, so the capitalist system does work, but not for all at all times. For those who fall through the cracks for whatever reasons, the state must be prepared to help get these people back on their feet, which does not always happen.

It is said, that in the USA, the king of capitalism, most wage earners are one pay cheque away from being homeless. There are homeless people all over California, which if it were a country, it would have the 5th largest economy in the world. Total disgrace that homelessness exists in the USA, let alone in California. Therefore, a little “socialism” is needed in developed countries to balance the books with capitalism for the good of that nation and it’s citizens. It should not be seen as throwing good money after the “losers” of our society, but investment into the future of our society. Communism and socialism had the right idea, but unworkable in practice, but too much capitalism is too unworkable for a health society in any country, especially the developed ones.

[erolz66]

Echos of what you are saying Kikapu in this article

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50562518

[erolz66]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... han-turkey

Parts of England 'have higher mortality rates than Turkey'.Thinktank finds regional divides in UK are among worst in developed countries.
Regional divides in the UK are among the worst in the developed world, according to a report, which found that parts of England have higher mortality rates than places in Turkey, Romania and Poland.

Research by the thinktank IPPR North found that the UK is more unequal than comparable countries on measures such as health, jobs, disposable income and productivity.

[Kikapu]

Echos of what you are saying Kikapu in this article

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50562518

Thanks ....just now read the article.

[Paphitis]

I believe most people are good at at least in one thing to make a living if the opportunity exists, who then from that point, they can move onto bettering themselves financially with other opportunities. One needs to start working somewhere to develop the working skills in making a living, which then becomes the driving force to move onto other things to make more money as we want more material things to makes us happy, especially true to young males in our society. Most people in all developed countries do succeed in taking care of themselves and their families financially, so the capitalist system does work, but not for all at all times. For those who fall through the cracks for whatever reasons, the state must be prepared to help get these people back on their feet, which does not always happen.

It is said, that in the USA, the king of capitalism, most wage earners are one pay cheque away from being homeless. There are homeless people all over California, which if it were a country, it would have the 5th largest economy in the world. Total disgrace that homelessness exists in the USA, let alone in California. Therefore, a little “socialism” is needed in developed countries to balance the books with capitalism for the good of that nation and it’s citizens. It should not be seen as throwing good money after the “losers” of our society, but investment into the future of our society. Communism and socialism had the right idea, but unworkable in practice, but too much capitalism is too unworkable for a health society in any country, especially the developed ones.

Perhaps the US can do with a little more social security. It's probably not the best but certainly not the worst either.

As for the UK, Canada, Australia and NZ, well there is already a lot of social security in place already. How far are we suppose to go with it? Pay for everything and tax the working more and more? That isn't the answer either as that only drives the economy down.

Social Security is thgere to only give people a leg up when needed, and not become an incentive for people not to work.

[Londonrake]

And yet, huge numbers travel vast distances at great risk, paying tens of thousands to come from the likes of Vietnam (some only to be frozen to death in the backs of lorries) in order to live there. A situation I doubt the likes of Turkey, Romania and Poland have concerns over.

It’s a mystery. Why they would do that, just to live in abject “poverty”?

Anybody else here spent time in India?

[erolz66]

And yet, huge numbers travel vast distances at great risk, paying tens of thousands to come from the likes of Vietnam (some only to be frozen to death in the backs of lorries) in order to live there. A situation I doubt the likes of Turkey, Romania and Poland have concerns over.

It’s a mystery. Why they would do that, just to live in abject “poverty”?

Anybody else here spent time in India?

Are the levels of poverty greater in countries Vietnam and India than they are in the UK ? Yes they are. Is this a reason for people who live and work and are citizens of the UK to therefore not worry about poverty in the UK ? Not in my book. Who has said anything, other than you, about people living in 'abject' poverty in the UK ? We have been talking about two distinct technical definitions of poverty in regards to the UK. Poverty defined as wealth relative to the UK national average and poverty defined as ability to provide basic necessities like food, shelter and warmth.

(btw Turkey today has the largest immigrant population relative to total population size of any country in the world, by a long long way.)