Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

I am voting based exclusively on what I 've read somewhere:
That a certain percentage of people in the UK (don't remember the exact figure) do live below the poverty line.
The only thing I remember is that I was impressed by the figure as it looked quite high to me.
(I think it was 16%??)

[Lordo]

Excellent!

Another subject that you can waste your life posting page after page that nobody reads about...

you have a very closed mind.

so what do you consider poverty to be? describe that and i can find you where it exists.

for instance if a child has no breakfast in the morning is that poverty?
if a person has no place to live is that poverty?
if a person is on zero hours contract and there are 800,000 people who are and not worked full week or not even half weekk is that poverty?
if a person is kept waiting for 6 mnths before gettin money on universal credit and this week they can't pay their rent or food is that poverty?

[erolz66]

I created this poll simply because I was curious as to who else here in addition to CG would be prepared to publicly claim (from behind the anonymity of their forum user names of course) that they sincerely believe that no one in the UK has to struggle in order to provide basic necessities like food shelter and warmth.

So far Paphitis has 'obliged'.

[cyprusgrump]

I am voting based exclusively on what I 've read somewhere:
That a certain percentage of people in the UK (don't remember the exact figure) do live below the poverty line.
The only thing I remember is that I was impressed by the figure as it looked quite high to me.
(I think it was 16%??)

That will be 'Relative Poverty'...

The idea that 16% of the UK are living in true poverty is utter bollox... Especially given the amount of taxpayer money spent on benefits every year.

Relative property is having less than 60% of the Median Income... You Just have to see one of Bore-Dough's charts to see what a high bar that is.

And I seem to remember the definition of 'poverty' had recently been morphed into 'no access to broadband' and some-such...

I remember when I was a kid, no central heating, ice on the inside of the windows during Winter, dad going to work at 4am every day, six days a week and Mum having to make our clothes... I can absolutely guarantee there is not 16% of the UK living in the conditions I grew up in...

[erolz66]

It is not your problem with relative poverty definitions in the UK that is the issue here.

It is your denial that there is any absolute poverty in the UK, with that being defined as not having to struggle in order to provide the basic things like food, shelter and warmth.

The idea that no one in the UK has to struggle daily to meet these basic needs, that no one lives in or under constant threat of this kind of poverty in the UK, that this kind of poverty just does not exist at all in the UK, is what I am challenging here.

[cyprusgrump]

Excellent!

Another subject that you can waste your life posting page after page that nobody reads about...

you have a very closed mind.

so what do you consider poverty to be? describe that and i can find you where it exists.

for instance if a child has no breakfast in the morning is that poverty?
if a person has no place to live is that poverty?
if a person is on zero hours contract and there are 800,000 people who are and not worked full week or not even half weekk is that poverty?
if a person is kept waiting for 6 mnths before gettin money on universal credit and this week they can't pay their rent or food is that poverty?

No. I don't remember having breakfast when I was a kid.
No. There are plenty of opportunities and schemes to provide housing. While you may not like it, the majority of those that have no place to live are those who simply cannot (for whatever reason) fit into the homes provided.
No. My Mum was on 'zero hours contracts'. She had several cleaning jobs so she could pay he bills and be there for us when we got home from school. While you may not like it, 'zero hours contracts' actually suit the lifestyles of many people.
No. As you've told us, food banks have stepped in to close this gap. Problem already solved.

Next questions...?

[cyprusgrump]

It is not your problem with relative poverty definitions in the UK that is the issue here.

It is your denial that there is any absolute poverty in the UK, with that being defined as not having to struggle in order to provide the basic things like food, shelter and warmth.

The idea that no one in the UK has to struggle daily to meet these basic needs, that no one lives in or under constant threat of this kind of poverty in the UK, that this kind of poverty just does not exist at all in the UK, is what I am challenging here.

No, the problem is the ridiculous black/white nature of your posts...

Okay, I'll concede that there may be a small number of people that (for whatever reason*) struggle...

...But to suggest that there is a large problem in the UK is simply untrue.

Okay...?


* Mental health issues, drink, drugs, immigration status, etc.

[erolz66]

No. I don't remember having breakfast when I was a kid.

If you remember constantly feeling hungry because your parents were unable to feed you enough, If you remember not being able to concentrate properly at school because of hunger, if you remember getting illnesses like rickets because your parents could not provide the right balance of food, if you remember illness brought on by having to live in damp and mouldy housing because your parents could not afford anything else, if you remember getting ill because your parents could not afford to heat your house sufficiently then you were living in poverty. Absolute poverty , not relative poverty.

The idea that today, no one in the UK faces this kind of poverty is not one based on any evidence I have seen. It seems to me to be based on nothing more that a need to try and justify political positions by denying reality.

[erolz66]

It is not your problem with relative poverty definitions in the UK that is the issue here.

It is your denial that there is any absolute poverty in the UK, with that being defined as not having to struggle in order to provide the basic things like food, shelter and warmth.

The idea that no one in the UK has to struggle daily to meet these basic needs, that no one lives in or under constant threat of this kind of poverty in the UK, that this kind of poverty just does not exist at all in the UK, is what I am challenging here.

No, the problem is the ridiculous black/white nature of your posts...

the black and white nature of MY posts ? This whole thread stated in response to your black and white assertion that there was no absolute poverty in the UK at all and that there only was 'relative poverty' of those who had less than average but were still able to meet basic necessities like food, shelter and warmth. It was this black and white denial that there was ANY such poverty in the UK today that I was not willing to let go without challenge.

Okay, I'll concede that there may be a small number of people that (for whatever reason*) struggle...

And kudos for you for conceding that , however grudgingly and however hedged around with caveats.

...But to suggest that there is a large problem in the UK is simply untrue.

I have little interest personally in arguing / discussing with you here what the degree of this poverty is in the UK. I merely was not prepared to accept your original black and white binary claim that it did not exist at all.

[cyprusgrump]

No. I don't remember having breakfast when I was a kid.

If you remember constantly feeling hungry because your parents were unable to feed you enough, If you remember not being able to concentrate properly at school because of hunger, if you remember getting illnesses like rickets because your parents could not provide the right balance of food, if you remember illness brought on by having to live in damp and mouldy housing because your parents could not afford anything else, if you remember getting ill because your parents could not afford to heat your house sufficiently then you were living in poverty. Absolute poverty , not relative poverty.

The idea that today, no one in the UK faces this kind of poverty is not one based on any evidence I have seen. It seems to me to be based on nothing more that a need to try and justify political positions by denying reality.

So The Expert On Everything...

Tell me how many children in the UK are constantly feeling hungry because their parents are unable to feed them enough, are unable to concentrate properly at school because of hunger, are getting illnesses like rickets because their parents could not provide the right balance of food, have illness brought on by having to live in damp and mouldy housing because their parents could not afford anything else and are getting ill because your parents can not afford to heat the house sufficiently...?

How many? Tens of millions? Millions? Hundreds of thousands...?

The government spends £264bn (2017) on welfare every year to eradicate the problems which you describe...