Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Do you want negotiations or war?

Why you didn't negotiate in 1974 instead of invading Cyprus?

Hey where have you been for the last 32 years, wake up we were in danger, in fear of losing our lives, you should really ask the Greek Junta and Eoka supporters whos aim was Enosis why they didnt stop to negotiate with TCs about uniting Cyprus with Greece and wiping out the TC population.

[Viewpoint]

but having to keep awake to protect my family at night from GC terrorists with the aim to make Cyprus a greek island would.

Where did you see the GC terrorists? What I see is 40.000 Turkish troops that occupy Cyprus. The occupation troops are real. Not imaginary like your terrorists. Why you always show GCs as monsters? To say that is correct to harm a monster? No we are not monsters and it is not correct that you harm us and occupy our land!

Your taking the above sentence out of context, Im talking about the before and after 1974 situation in relation to the non-recognition of the TRNC. You should read it as a whole;

Being illegal until or if a solution is found does not make me lose sleep at night but having to keep awake to protect my family at night from GC terrorists with the aim to make Cyprus a greek island would.

[Sotos]

Hey where have you been for the last 32 years, wake up we were in danger, in fear of losing our lives, you should really ask the Greek Junta and Eoka supporters whos aim was Enosis why they didnt stop to negotiate with TCs about uniting Cyprus with Greece and wiping out the TC population.

Again you show GCs as monsters. "wiping out TC population"! Why you can not argue without propaganda? There was a coup against our president. We didn't even support it and we were fighting against it! Why you didn't join us to fight the coup and you invaded Cyprus? And the reason I asked you "Why you didn't negotiate in 1974 instead of invading Cyprus?" is to show that you choose the war and not negotiations. The war didn't end in 1974 as you know. Why you don't end the war now so we can have negotiations? Because the "GC terrorists will come at night and wipe out the TC population"?

[Sotos]

I try to be as objective as possible and I understand the fears you could have in 1974. Fair enough. But today you have to admit that you use the fears as an excuse. Here is part of an article by a British I posted some time ago:

The overwhelming majority on the island, around 80 percent or so, are ethnically Greek. The rest are ethnically Turkish. Yet Cyprus has never been part of Greece. It belonged to the Ottoman Empire until the end of World War I. After the Ottomans lost it, the British Empire ruled it.

In the 1950s the EOKA guerilla movement arose that sought to overthrow British colonial rule and achieve enosis, or union, with Greece. It didn’t work out. But Cyprus was granted a limited amount of independence by Britain.

Then in the late 1960s Colonel George Papadapoulos violently seized power in Greece. The Greek junta in Athens sponsored the return of EOKA as a virulently right-wing terrorist organization which rebranded itself EOKA-B. Unlike the original EOKA which, for the most part, waged war against the colonial occupiers, EOKA-B waged its war against Greek Cypriot and Turkish Cypriot civilians.

Papadapolous was bad for Greece, and he was bad for Cyprus. But he wasn’t the worst bad actor around. In the 1960s General Dimitrios Ioannides advocated a brutal “solution” to the “problem” of Turkish Cypriots to Archbishop Makarios: “To attack the Turkish Cypriots suddenly, everywhere on the island, and eliminate them to the last one.” Genocide, in other words. And in 1973, Ioannides seized power in Greece from Papadapolous.

Ioannides sponsored yet another military coup, this time in Cyprus, that overthrew the elected and popular civilian Makarios government. He installed Nicos Sampson as the new ruler of Cyprus. Sampson, who also at one time advocated genocide against Turkish Cypriots, launched a ruthless campaign of terror against leftist, liberal, and democratic Greek Cypriots who dared to stand up to his rule. Turkish Cypriots, who had every reason in the world to believe Ioannides and Samson planned to destroy them, hunkered down in ghettoes and appealed to Turkey for help.

The Turks had the real opportunity to be saviors here, not only of Turkish Cypriots, but also of Greek Cypriots and even Greeks in Greece. That, for a month anyway, is exactly what they were. Turkey launched a limited invasion of Cyprus and occupied a small part of the island in July 1974. Ioannides’ military regime in Greece promptly collapsed. Power was handed back to civilians. Ioannides was thrown into the slammer. When the junta in Cyprus found itself without its patron in Athens, it too promptly collapsed -- and collapsing the very same day.

The Turks should have stopped there. Civilian rule had been restored in two countries thanks in large part to them. Turkish Cypriot civilians really were rescued from the depredations of unelected Greek and Greek Cypriot thugs who threatened to massacre them. Yet they just couldn’t help themselves. For years the Turkish military elite had been eyeballing Cyprus as an old Ottoman holding that they wanted back. And so, using the real threat to Turkish Cypriot civilians -- a threat that for the most part had already been vanquished -- Turkey cut Cyprus in half. Then Turkey forced nearly all the Greek Cypriots on the northern half the island to move south of the partition Line. The displaced were, and are, forbidden from returning to their old homes.

In 1983 the Turkish Cypriot side of the island declared itself an independent country called the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. No country in the world aside from Turkey has ever recognized its legitimacy or even its existence.

[Viewpoint]

Sotos you need to go and do some research of the conditions Tcs were living in back in the 1960/70s and talk to TCs about their real fears during the events of 1974 and that we had been negotiating since 1963 when we kicked out of the "RoC" to no avail.

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

You really goto wake up out of your cloud cookoo land Pirastis.

Firstly Sotos

All the Turkish nationalists are attacking Piratis because he asked for democracy and human rights.

Human Rights and Democracy are just words my friend, there's a meaning behind them which your totally missing out on.

You are demanding what Turkish Cypriots will and wont have, its all up to you, your word is final, we can't listen to Turkish Cypriots because Piratis says so and Piratis feels angry and feels his cause is justified and Greek suffering is more meaninfull then Turkish suffering.

There's no democracy here mate, sorry.

Sotos
The "trnc" was forcefully created against international law

Another common lie, go and read the International Law treaty about Cyprus, clearly it states Turkey is a Legal Guaranteur to protect her people on Cyprus, so its fully Legal to interwine if Turks are being massacred by EOKA Terrorists Greek Junta.

Pirastis
Go ask a British, a French, a German a Turk etc if they would accept what you are asking for their own country. The answer you will get is the same answer I give.

What a deluded man you are, don't you get it, Cyprus isnt YOURS, it isnt GREEK, it never has been, its not your country to take, Cyprus was Cyprus in 1960 neither Turk nor Greek just Cypriot, GREECE DIDNT WANT THIS REMEMBER, YOUR JUNTA CAME TORE UP THE CONSITUTION AND EMBARKED UPON ENOSIS.

Your sooooooo brainwashed you can't grasp this simple concept, the nation ceased being Cyprus the moment your Junta couldnt accept that Turks also had a right to live on Island and when they tried to wipe us out and tie the Island to mainland Greece.

Pirastis
What you demand from us is outrageous, it exists nowhere else in the world, it is tailored made to your demands showing no respect even to our basic human and democratic rights and this is why it is rejected by us just like it would be rejected by anybody else for their own country.

Again Cyprus was never YOUR country lol, Greek Cyprus today is YOUR country, we are not in YOUR country get it, were in our country, Turks have a country, Greeks have a country, its not rocket science. Stop demanding OUR land, leave OUR land alone you have ENOUGH land stop being GREEDY.

Also please stop your nonsense that were 18% so deserve 18% land its nonsense, firstly TODAY Turkish Cypriots are way over 18% of the Island.

An additional fact,

The book also describes in detail the massacres of the Turks by the Greek Cypriot community in December 1963, only three years after the island had gained its independence, which began 11 years of brutality against the Turks. During this period, Turks were hounded into ghettos, some only tent villages of refugees, squeezed into three percent of the island, whereas at independence they had owned 35 percent, some of it the richest farmlands. Now the Turks hold 37 percent, mostly uncultivable mountain and poor farmland. And the Greeks now want this, too.

"THE GENOCIDE FILES" by Harry Scott Gibbons



We had 35% of the BEST, RICHEST LAND IN CYPRUS 1960 this has been ROBBED, you see Pirastis your digging your own grave, the more you make stupid claims the more facts will be revealed and then Turks will be screaming WE WANT 35% OF THE RICHEST LAND BACK.

Pirastis
We are very flexible.

Are you the son of the President lol, who is WE, since when did YOU make the decisions.

Your missing the point completely, its not YOUR nation, we dont need to bow to what you want as if you own the place, its as much yours as ours and comprimise yes that magic word COMPRIMISE is needed something you dont understand.

Its like saying, we maybe just might listen to the Greeks if they apply to our terms our condition cos CYPRUS IS OURS JUST OURS ONLY OURS WHO ARE THESE BARBARIANS THINKING THEY CAN DEBATE WITH US

Oh and about Death tolls

Estimating the total number of deaths suffered by Turkish Cypriots is hard. Conservative estimates puts the deaths as higher as 120,000 during the period 1888-1974

wikipedia.com


On Jan. 1, 1964, the Daily Herald reported: "When I came across the Turkish Cypriot homes they were an appalling sight. Apart from the walls they just did not exist. I doubt if a napalm attack could have created more devastation. Under roofs which had caved in I found a twisted mass of bed springs, children's cots, and grey ashes of what had once been tables, chairs and wardrobes. In the neighboring village of Ayios Vassilios I counted 16 wrecked and burned out homes. They were all Turkish Cypriot. In neither village did I find a scrap of damage to any Greek Cypriot house."

On Jan. 2, 1964, the Daily Telegraph wrote: "The Greek Cypriot community should not assume that the British military presence can or should secure them against Turkish intervention if they persecute the Turkish Cypriots. We must not be a shelter for double-crossers."

On Jan. 12, 1964, the British High Commission in Nicosia wrote in a telegram to London: "The Greek [Cypriot] police are led by extremists who provoked the fighting and deliberately engaged in atrocities. They have recruited into their ranks as 'special constables' gun-happy young thugs. They threaten to try and punish any Turkish Cypriot police who wishes to return to the Cyprus Government.... Makarios assured Sir Arthur Clark that there will be no attack. His assurance is as worthless as previous assurances have proved."

On Jan. 14, 1964, the Daily Telegraph reported that the Turkish Cypriot inhabitants of Ayios Vassilios had been massacred on Dec. 26, 1963 and reported their exhumation from a mass grave in the presence of the Red Cross. A further massacre of Turkish Cypriots, at Limassol, was reported by The Observer on Feb. 16, 1964; and there were many more.

On Feb. 6, 1964, a British patrol found armed Greek Cypriot police attacking the Turkish Cypriots of Ayios Sozomenos. They were unable to stop the attack.

On Feb. 13, 1964, the Greeks and Greek Cypriots attacked the Turkish Cypriot quarter of Limassol with tanks, killing 16 and injuring 35.

On Feb. 15, 1964, the Daily Telegraph reported: "It is a real military operation which the Greek Cypriots launched against the 6,000 inhabitants of the Turkish Cypriot quarter yesterday morning. A spokesman for the Greek Cypriot government has recognized this officially. It is hard to conceive how Greek and Turkish Cypriots may seriously contemplate working together after all that has happened."..............so many many many more



On Sept. 10, 1964, the U.N. Secretary-General reported that "UNFICYP carried out a detailed survey of all damage to properties throughout the island during the disturbances. ...it shows that in 109 villages, most of them Turkish-Cypriot or mixed villages, 527 houses have been destroyed while 2,000 others have suffered damage from looting. In Ktima 38 houses and shops have been destroyed totally and 122 partially. In the Orphomita suburb of Nicosia, 50 houses have been totally destroyed while a further 240 have been partially destroyed there and in adjacent suburbs."



Among them was my families house

Why did this appear in Cyprus news



We are not talking about 300 dead, or 45 dead, but 96 people killed during action in 1974 — and that is only from an initial examination of 487 files out of 1,619 examined at the Attorney General’s office.



Since securing independence from the Ottoman Empire in 1831, Greece claimed Cyprus due to its majority Greek population. Indeed, the new monarch was styled "King of the Hellenes" to emphasize sovereignty over Greeks everywhere. Enosis (union) with Greece was also the aspiration of Greek Cypriots. In 1915 Britain offered to cede Cyprus to Greece in return for their entry into the war against the Central Powers, but Greece considered the price too great as they expected a German victory. This war-time offer by Britain also raised Cypriot expectations since it invalidated the previous British argument that Cyprus was leased from the Turks and would revert to them when the British departed. When Britain made Cyprus a Crown Colony in 1925, the political campaign for enosis intensified. Serious riots in 1931 were suppressed by the British authorities. The Greek Orthodox Church led the enosis movement, and after the Second World War Archbishop Makarios III personified it. In 1951 he secretly invited Cypriot-born retired Greek Army colonel Georgios Grivas to form EOKA (Ethniki Organosis Kyprion Aghoniston, National Organisation of Cypriot Fighters) as the military wing of the enosis movement.

http://www.regiments.org/wars/20thcent/55cyprus.htm

DO YOU READ THAT PIRASTIS, THE ISLAND WAS OURS, BRITTISH RENTED IT AND SHOULD HAVE GIVEN IT BACK AS PROMISED, WHOSE ISLAND WAS IT NOW????????????????????????/

THINK BEFORE YOU WRITE NEXT TIME

1955.04.01 EOKA terrorist activity began
1955.08.29 British, Greek and Turkish representatives began London Conference on Cyprus question (deadlocked 7 Sept. 1955)
1955.11.26 State of Emergency declared
1956.01 British forces increased to 17,000
1956.02.02 Makarios rejected British plan for gradual independence
1956.03.09 Makarios exiled to Seychelles on charge of complicity with EOKA

WHOSE FAULT WAS THIS???





NOT NICE PICTURES ARE THEY

THE WORST BIT IS, MORE GREEK CYPRIOTS!!! SUFFERED IN THE HANDS OF THE GREEK JUNTA AND WERE KILLED THEN BY ANYONE ELSE


The true facts are that Greece DID stage, manage and carry out a successful coup, overthrew the elected president, Archbishop Makarios (after unsuccessfully attempting to kill him), formed a new government led by a tried and convicted Greek Cypriot terrorist, began a civil war between the pro-Athens Greek-Cypriot National Guard, led by mainland Greek troops and supported by the Greek-Cypriot terrorist organisation EOKA B, battling it out in the streets with supporters of the ousted Makarios. Armed Greek Cypriot civilians joined in the fighting and, in five days, some 2,000 Greeks and Greek Cypriots had been killed.

Then the National Guard turned on the Turkish Cypriot population as they tried to flee from the fighting and began killing them out of hand. It was only then that Turkey sent in its forces to stop the civil war, overturn the coup and restore the lawful president, Archbishop Makarios. It was not an unwarranted invasion. The Standing Committee of the Consultative Assembly of the Council of Europe ruled, July 29,1974, the "Turkey exercised its right of intervention in accordance with Article IV of the Treaty of Guarantee."

This was the treaty signed by Britain, Turkey, Greece and the Greek and Turkish communities in Cyprus to preserve the independence and integrity of the island.

THE GENOCIDE FILES" by Harry Scott Gibbons


The Greek Junta and its disturbing Enosis campain killed so many Greek Cypriots, WHY DONT YOU EVER CRITICISE THESE SOTOS AND PIRASTIS, that same Junta then turned on the UN-ARMED Turkish civillian population.

Turkey's Legal Intervention actually saved GREEKY CYPRIOTS aswell as Turks from this Junta and allowed your President to gain power again, how Ironic that now its all our fault

[Sotos]

Viewpoint I know enough of the past. Both communities have suffered and both share the blame. But today there is no reason to spread hate and show one side as monsters. Why should I be displaced from my home because some criminal in Greece sponsored coup in Cyprus and some other criminal in Turkey found the excuse to kick me (not him) out of my house? The war that started in 1974 should end now. And if we want to have something different than what we agreed in 1960 we can negotiate under conditions of peace, not war. Negotiating under conditions of war is like Germany that was negotiating surrender after they lost the war. This is what you want from us? To surrender because we lost the war? These are not fair negotiations and this is why they don't have a fair result e.g. Annan plan.

[Sotos]

Lala_Mustafa_Pasha, GCs extremists of your kind have been banned some time ago. I hope this will happen to you soon. You just want to spread hate and post your propaganda. Did you come here from atcanews that now seems non operational anymore?

[Lala_Mustafa_Pasha]

Sotos
But today there is no reason to spread hate and show one side as monsters.

Tell that to Pirastis, to him were sub-human Barbarians

Why should I be displaced from my home because some criminal in Greece sponsored coup in Cyprus and some other criminal in Turkey found the excuse to kick me (not him) out of my house?

See this is the bit I never understand, the Greek Junta was also very aggressive to Greek Cypriots who wouldnt join their cause, if the Turkish Millitary hadnt used its Legal Guaranteur then not only the Turks but the Greeks would have suffered tremendously, you would have been ruled by Sampson and the Greek Junta under total tyranny and oppression but instead he was ousted and your President bought back in.

I am displaced, my families house was razed to the ground and we were put in an enclave but fled to England and escaped. I dont expect anyone to re-build our home its just wishfull thinking, we worked hard in England and bought a home in Turkish Cyprus where were safe now.

Sotos
I hope this will happen to you soon. You just want to spread hate and post your propaganda.

Hate? Propoganda? your saying that these things didnt happen.

Why dont you say the same to your dear friend Pirastis? he spreads hate and propoganda all day ooh thats different isnt it, he's telling the truth

[Perastikos]

accommodation is the missing word if we accept what we are both equally
have our responsibilities.

The only extremist in here is Piratis who tried to find the bud demons of the past with out the ability to accept an accommodation.

This is the problem of this conversations wake up.

Their isn't any absolute justice come from haven like Piratis talking about with out even can realize what he says.