Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz66]

let's talk about the frustrations of discussing brexit here.

I have said many times I would support ANY form of leaving the EU up to and including a no deal exit that can command a majority either of elected MPs or referendum. Yet your only response is "you just want to overturn the referendum result and nothing else and are against democracy and should be ashamed of yourself ". This is very frustrating. Nothing I can say or do will change your mind that I am just an antidemocratic liar. Such behavior may well make you feel good but it offers no route out of this situation are than more acrimony and division, which you will then also blame me for.

[Londonrake]

let's talk about the frustrations of discussing brexit here.

I have said many times I would support ANY form of leaving the EU up to and including a no deal exit that can command a majority either of elected MPs or referendum. Yet your only response is "you just want to overturn the referendum result and nothing else and are against democracy and should be ashamed of yourself ". This is very frustrating. Nothing I can say or do will change your mind that I am just an antidemocratic liar. Such behavior may well make you feel good but it offers no route out of this situation are than more acrimony and division, which you will then also blame me for.

I don’t believe I‘ve called you a liar. If so I apologise You do seem to be taking it all very personally.

The people are sovereign, not a few hundred MPs. When parliament voted overwhelmingly in 2016 to go to the electorate for a decision they surrendered their rights in the matter. To subsequently renege on that, particularly after again going to the country in 2017 promising to honour the result, is nothing short of a national betrayal.

Sorry but yes - you are being undemocratic.

What I feel on this matter, you can trust me, is about as far away from good as it’s possible to get.

The route out is to honour the referendum result - as promised.

We had a referendum. We don’t need another on the matter.

Anyway, I’ve got to go shopping - apparently. We all have our taskmasters.

[Paphitis]

Great news for Brexiteers!

UK Parliament is going to be prorogued again!

[Lordo]

the best compromise is when you compromise your opponets point.

we had an agreement where northern ireland was going to be in the backstop. may changed that to include all of the uk including uk unable to come out of it without the agreement of the eu

manchild has moved from there just to include northern ireland and moved from default in to default out so when we leave the eu northern ireland also leaves and stormont can decide wehter they stay in or out so default is out. and he says this is compromise. hell it is. it may be accepted by the parliament but it certainly will not be accepted by eu.

back to square one.

now that manchild has declared he may not go to the meeting on the 17th, and he is intending to prorouge parliament till the 14th of october, there is no issue with declaring a no confidence motion before tuesday. the main point is will at least 5 tory mps support the motion and if they do, his goose is cooked.

[Paphitis]

the best compromise is when you compromise your opponets point.

we had an agreement where northern ireland was going to be in the backstop. may changed that to include all of the uk including uk unable to come out of it without the agreement of the eu

manchild has moved from there just to include northern ireland and moved from default in to default out so when we leave the eu northern ireland also leaves and stormont can decide wehter they stay in or out so default is out. and he says this is compromise. hell it is. it may be accepted by the parliament but it certainly will not be accepted by eu.

back to square one.

now that manchild has declared he may not go to the meeting on the 17th, and he is intending to prorouge parliament till the 14th of october, there is no issue with declaring a no confidence motion before tuesday. the main point is will at least 5 tory mps support the motion and if they do, his goose is cooked.

You side are all chicken and even if y=they did, they are gonnas at the next GE.

Look at the polls.

[Pyrpolizer]

the best compromise is when you compromise your opponets point.

we had an agreement where northern ireland was going to be in the backstop. may changed that to include all of the uk including uk unable to come out of it without the agreement of the eu

manchild has moved from there just to include northern ireland and moved from default in to default out so when we leave the eu northern ireland also leaves and stormont can decide wehter they stay in or out so default is out. and he says this is compromise. hell it is. it may be accepted by the parliament but it certainly will not be accepted by eu.

Why not be accepted by the EU???
That's almost identical to EU's original proposal. The only difference is that instead of setting NI in the EU right from the start, it will give it the option to be in or out in 2025.
Notice another thing:The so called "leaving with a Deal" is actually "leaving with a draft deal". Negotiations between the EU and the UK will continue based on this draft deal for a minimum of 2 years extendable to 4 (hence the 2025 date set for NI to decide what to do).
After the EU and the UK finish the job, the backstop issue may or may not be an issue anymore. Depends on how much the 2 sides will converge.

If Bojo actually proposes such a deal to the EU, I would support him 100%.

NB. I think the EU will propose a change to the date, something like "immediately after UK's trade negotiations with the EU will finish"

[erolz66]

Erolz. You are famous on this forum for your “War and Peace” posting penchant. Routinely far longer than just about anybody else’s efforts. Surely, you know that?

I used detail where i think such is necessary to get my view, my opinion and my identity across when I think that is necessary and brevity when I think that can achieve the aim of getting my opinion across clearly. What I do not do in any sort of consistent manner is seek to counter, ignore or dismiss a posters arguments based on their posting style.

Honour the 2016 referendum vote.

I accept any form of leaving including no deal that has majority support of the people. I would accept any for of exit including no deal that was the largest preferred option of the people even if it did not have a majority but was just the biggest preference. The only thing I will not support is a means of exit that does not have either of these things because I am a democrat. You appear to accept only a form of exit that you like and no other form at all and regardless of what form the majority of the people might want.

Then I’ll accept your protestations and fully support your right to campaign for EU membership. Otherwise, you’re just another hypocrite, exploring every devious avenue in order to overturn it, whilst kidding yourself that you’re a “democrat”.

I will not give up my right to a fair and equal say to you as to HOW we should exit the EU simply because I did not vote to leave or because that will stop you from calling me anti democratic.

Now, please, come back when you’ve something new to say and not the same old, same old.

Please come back when you are able to hear what I am saying free from the baggage that forces you to believe that what I say is meaningless or a lie.

[Paphitis]

the best compromise is when you compromise your opponets point.

we had an agreement where northern ireland was going to be in the backstop. may changed that to include all of the uk including uk unable to come out of it without the agreement of the eu

manchild has moved from there just to include northern ireland and moved from default in to default out so when we leave the eu northern ireland also leaves and stormont can decide wehter they stay in or out so default is out. and he says this is compromise. hell it is. it may be accepted by the parliament but it certainly will not be accepted by eu.

Why not be accepted by the EU???
That's almost identical to EU's original proposal. The only difference is that instead of setting NI in the EU right from the start, it will give it the option to be in or out in 2025.
Notice another thing:The so called "leaving with a Deal" is actually "leaving with a draft deal". Negotiations between the EU and the UK will continue based on this draft deal for a minimum of 2 years extendable to 4 (hence the 2025 date set for NI to decide what to do).
After the EU and the UK finish the job, the backstop issue may or may not be an issue anymore. Depends on how much the 2 sides will converge.

If Bojo actually proposes such a deal to the EU, I would support him 100%.

NB. I think the EU will propose a change to the date, something like "immediately after UK's trade negotiations with the EU will finish"

There is no decision to be made. It's a plan for 2 borders allowing NI to leave the EU completely.

The only exclusion would be the ability for NI to remain aligned on a regulatory basis for a period of 4 years only, until 2025. NI will still be leaving the EU.

NI has already decided that they wanted to be a part of the UK, which means they prefer to leave the EU. The NI Assembly decision is a foregone conclusion.

Ah Pyro, but you have no clue about the English. They are not going to give Europe an inch.

Now as for Theresa's Deal. the Brits did not have any real issues with anything other than the Irish Backstop which was always the only matter they could no agree to. The new plan addresses these issues.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... exit-offer

But regardless, the EU have already suggested they are going to reject this plan, and from what Boris is saying, Britain is still leaving on the 31st.

Here is more about the new plan:

[erolz66]

You side are all chicken and even if y=they did, they are gonnas at the next GE.

Look at the polls.

Graham Brady (Conservative) backed Leave his constituency vote remain 61.4% In his time since the referendum his party has changed leader three times called an early GE where they lost seats as a result not gained, has to date failed totally to deliver on the referendum result and has expelled over 20 Tory MPs from the party including luminaries like Soames and Clark. Yeah he looks set for a crushing GE victory to me. not.

you could also look at Victoria Borwick,Anne Main,David Burrowes,Graham Brady,Peter Lilley,Theresa Villiers,Dominic Raab,Matthew Offord,John Redwood,Jonathan Lord,Julian Sturdy,Cheryl Gillan,Ranil Jayawardena,Robert Courts,Adam Afriyie,Maria Caulfield,Bob Blackman,Liam Fox,Chris Grayling,Crispin Blunt,Geoffrey Clifton-Brown. All conservative leave supporting MPs from constituencies that voted to remain in the referendum.

[Paphitis]

Nigel Farage will be an MP in the next Parliament.

Oh boy, that's gonna make it a fun Parliament.