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[Paphitis]

Usually, most of the kids that attend these schools are not what I would call wealthy. Most struggle to pay the fees.

No one who can pay the fees for going to my old public school is poor. Not a single one. No matter how much they might struggle to find the money to pay those fees. They are not poor. Millions in the UK ARE poor. 10s of millions. That some of the taxes those who ARE poor pay are used to subsidies schools like my old one is simply obscene. This is not the politics of envy. It is the politics of equity.

I never said they were poor.

Most are middle class. That means that Mum and Dad work and sacrifice to send their kids to these schools. Some are also quite poor and they go there because most of these schools are actually Christian based and these organizations try to be inclusive and sometimes let some students in with fee deferment plans and subsidies. That is where the charity comes in. yes they provide charity to the poor. I have seen it.

My children attend one of the elitist schools. Probably one of the most elite schools in Australia. We have many friends from other families. Most families are professionals. We have become friends with many through our kids. Yes there are a lot of well off families, and plenty of middle class families but the richest I have met and become friends with is a property developer, a builder, and there are some medical specialists and also a couple of pilot families too.

There is one who works as a pilot at RAAF Edinburgh too.

So all in all, you are proposing to tax and hinder normal families. Just because you can go to Eaton does not make you rich. It definitely makes you aspirational, and want the best for kids. It probably means you are well heeled and focused in my opinion. But it doesn't make you rich.

You can try to cut their funding but that will not be fair on the middle class or the poorer families that do attend these schools. That's because these schools will just raise their fees and the only students left will be the rich.

See that's the thing with your idiotic socialist stupidities. It is always the middle class and poorer families that suffer the most with your stupidities. It's not the actual rich who will continue to pay massive fees no matter how much they go up.

On your bike Erolz. No one is buying your stupid agendas anymore.

And back to coventry for you. I am not going round and round in circles with you.

[Paphitis]

Oh yes! More traitors resign as the swamp is drained even more.

BORIS confirms that WTO is back on the table.

BORIS intends to go WTO if there is no agreement with the EU by the end of 2020.

This is actually quite awesome.

[Paphitis]

[Paphitis]

Yet he does not advocate member states leave the EU, nor does he advocate the dissolution of the EU either. Nor reform of the EU. He advocates transformation of it. You really should, imo, try and look at all he says rather than just cut snippets , out of context, from his words that suit your agenda and ignore all the rest. Otherwise you might come across as being more interested in using propaganda techniques to support your position rather than seeking better understanding through discussion and dialogue.

The usual clutching at straws obfuscation. What makes you think I'm just cutting snippets? It's a good read. His views on the EU deep establishment are quite clear. IIRC his advice, hard earned from bitter experience, to May was that she shouldn't negotiate with such people. His warnings about their love of duplicitous sequencing. Well, didn't that turn out to be the case!

This is not propaganda, it's history.

You really should try and look at what he says about his experiences in dealing with the EU with an open mind. Without your usual highly prejudiced rose tinted glasses.

More on the EU: “it remains in the nature of the beast to treat the will of electorates as a nuisance that must be, somehow, negated... For all their concerns with rules, treaties, processes, competitiveness, freedom of movement, terrorism etc, only one prospect truly terrifies the EU’s deep establishment: democracy”.

Only you could turn Varoufakis's words into an advocacy of the European project. You truly do live an Orwellian existence. And of course, it will always be impossible to engage in what you perceive as "discussion and dialogue". Which is why I try mostly not to.

Good Post LR.
@Erolz66 have you had the opportunity to read Varoufakis book "Adults I the room" it is an account of his dealings with the EU in his capacity as finance minister for the Tsipras government. The title of the book comes as a result of his meetings with the European Bank ministers... Lefarge et Al... He details events which led up to Tsipras accepting the terms of the 'bailout' which as Greek finance minister he did not agree with at all... Instead advising Tsipras to call the EUs bluff and refuse to pay even suggesting that Greece leave the EU. These actions led to his being sacked by his old friend Tsipras. He suggested also that the UK should leave the EU without any deal.

Obviously there is more to this read than my brief synopsis above. But it is a very interesting read from a man who is definitely a financial expert.

The book is available on amazon or if yourself or LR would like a copy I would be more than happy to send you mine to share. I

I have always had a thing for Varoufakis based on his stance when he was Finance Minister for Greece.

People like Erolz and Lordo look up to him but when it comes down to it, this guy was a GREXITEER pioneer, and also a lot more supportive of BREXIT than most realize.

His views on the EU are well known. he reveals a lot of the goings on during the crisis and said it many times that Greece should not negotiate or accept any of the EU demands and even proceed towards GREXIT. He said the same thing for the Brits. It's pointless negotiating with criminals.

[RichardB]

Yet he does not advocate member states leave the EU, nor does he advocate the dissolution of the EU either. Nor reform of the EU. He advocates transformation of it. You really should, imo, try and look at all he says rather than just cut snippets , out of context, from his words that suit your agenda and ignore all the rest. Otherwise you might come across as being more interested in using propaganda techniques to support your position rather than seeking better understanding through discussion and dialogue.

The usual clutching at straws obfuscation. What makes you think I'm just cutting snippets? It's a good read. His views on the EU deep establishment are quite clear. IIRC his advice, hard earned from bitter experience, to May was that she shouldn't negotiate with such people. His warnings about their love of duplicitous sequencing. Well, didn't that turn out to be the case!

This is not propaganda, it's history.

You really should try and look at what he says about his experiences in dealing with the EU with an open mind. Without your usual highly prejudiced rose tinted glasses.

More on the EU: “it remains in the nature of the beast to treat the will of electorates as a nuisance that must be, somehow, negated... For all their concerns with rules, treaties, processes, competitiveness, freedom of movement, terrorism etc, only one prospect truly terrifies the EU’s deep establishment: democracy”.

Only you could turn Varoufakis's words into an advocacy of the European project. You truly do live an Orwellian existence. And of course, it will always be impossible to engage in what you perceive as "discussion and dialogue". Which is why I try mostly not to.

Good Post LR.
@Erolz66 have you had the opportunity to read Varoufakis book "Adults I the room" it is an account of his dealings with the EU in his capacity as finance minister for the Tsipras government. The title of the book comes as a result of his meetings with the European Bank ministers... Lefarge et Al... He details events which led up to Tsipras accepting the terms of the 'bailout' which as Greek finance minister he did not agree with at all... Instead advising Tsipras to call the EUs bluff and refuse to pay even suggesting that Greece leave the EU. These actions led to his being sacked by his old friend Tsipras. He suggested also that the UK should leave the EU without any deal.

Obviously there is more to this read than my brief synopsis above. But it is a very interesting read from a man who is definitely a financial expert.

The book is available on amazon or if yourself or LR would like a copy I would be more than happy to send you mine to share. I

I have always had a thing for Varoufakis based on his stance when he was Finance Minister for Greece.

People like Erolz and Lordo look up to him but when it comes down to it, this guy was a GREXITEER pioneer, and also a lot more supportive of BREXIT than most realize.

His views on the EU are well known. he reveals a lot of the goings on during the crisis and said it many times that Greece should not negotiate or accept any of the EU demands and even proceed towards GREXIT. He said the same thing for the Brits. It's pointless negotiating with criminals.

Well said paphitis I dlidnt really want to get involved in any brexit debate but what you say is how I read it.
I respect varoufakis for his knowledge of the European banking system and all its flaws. At the end of the day his words may come back and haunt the EU

Regards to you and yours

[erolz66]

Some are also quite poor and they go there because most of these schools are actually Christian based and these organizations try to be inclusive and sometimes let some students in with fee deferment plans and subsidies. That is where the charity comes in. yes they provide charity to the poor. I have seen it.

Your ability and willingness to talk publicly with authority about things you know so little about, even after the decade plus I have watched such, still to this day amazes me.

My old school, like all such schools, did and does offer bursaries and scholarships (reduction in fees up to 100% and even in excess of a 100%) to a vanishingly tiny proportion of students. Less than 1%. Now if they offer such on a lottery system, then the argument that this tiny proportion of students represented some form of charity may hold some water. However when you give something away for free only because doing so gains you benefit as a result, then that is not charity it is calculated self interest. For example when fashion labels give away free product to 'influencers' that is not charity in my book nor do I suspect in many other people's books either. Bursaries and Scholarships are offered only to those with exceptional talents, academic, sporting or musical. They allow such schools to cream off the best talents from the 'unwashed masses' which then go on to aid the figures used to sell the School to the 99% who do have to pay fees. Ain't no charity here mate.

My children attend one of the elitist schools.

I have heard it said you got your pilots license from Oxford university as well

So all in all, you are proposing to tax and hinder normal families.

No I am stating that is is imo inherently unfair to raise taxes from the poorest in society and then use those funds in part to benefit only the middle income through to the super rich.

Just because you can go to Eaton does not make you rich. It definitely makes you aspirational, and want the best for kids. It probably means you are well heeled and focused in my opinion. But it doesn't make you rich.

Just in case you are under any illusion, you could not get your kids in to Eaton no matter how much money you had, let alone aspiration. The system does not work that way.

You can try to cut their funding but that will not be fair on the middle class or the poorer families that do attend these schools. That's because these schools will just raise their fees and the only students left will be the rich.

Cutting funding is not the same as not subsidising. If charity status were removed from these schools, they would still offer bursaries and scholarships to cream off the best talent they can for their own advantage in exactly the same numbers they do with such charity status. So removing charity status would not effect the sub 1% of 'poor' that are gifted free places (provided they have enough talent to pay for their place in stead of hard cash). Removing such might end up increasing prices to a degree that affected a minuscule number of parents ability to send their child to a given public school at the margine but as you yourself have pointed out there will be options for cheaper schools available. So such a change might stop a minuscule number 'middle class' family from being able to send their child to their first preferred public school and 'force' them to choose a slightly cheaper option. It would save taxpayers millions of pounds a year. All of them, including those millions who are poor and have no option or choice to send their children to a public school no matter how much they scrimp and scrape and sacrifice.

See that's the thing with your idiotic socialist stupidities. It is always the middle class and poorer families that suffer the most with your stupidities. It's not the actual rich who will continue to pay massive fees no matter how much they go up.

Removing charity status is nothing to do with 'getting the rich'. It is just about simple equity and fairness in society. The 'poor' would not lose from such a change, those of them with children of exceptional talent, at all. The rich and the super rich will just keep on sending their kids to the school anyway, regardless of the loss of charity status. I tiny number of middle class parents may have to settle for a slightly cheaper school is the only negative result of such a change.

On your bike Erolz. No one is buying your stupid agendas anymore.

@Grump - see this is an example of what I mean by 'speaking for everyone' that is always a 'red flag'. I mention this because to date your examples of my supposed hypocrisy in this regard indicated that you have failed totally to understand or grasp what I meant with that comment.

And back to coventry for you. I am not going round and round in circles with you.

When you say this I can not help but be left with an impression that you somehow think, you placing me in 'Coventry' is something other than a 'result' from my perspective. If only you were able to stick to such promises as far as I am concerned.

[Londonrake]

Good news people. Only 5 weeks to go!

[cyprusgrump]

Good news people. Only 5 weeks to go!

And four weeks of that the trains will be on strike...

[Londonrake]

Good news people. Only 5 weeks to go!

And four weeks of that the trains will be on strike...

And possibly no post over the election and Christmas. Might as well get used to it again I suppose.

[Lordo]

interesting lot thse tory kants and their supporters. fancy editting a clip to make a person look speechless. i mean this is not even in the queensberry rules right?

as to the train drivers strike, it is so clever of the sw trains to cause this by going back on the promise they made about train gurads. how else are they going to make the mugs vote for tories. a bit of union bashing always helps.

what a bunch of kaning asshole these excuses for human being are.

so manchild is planjing to have a trade deal with america where we pay them 500 million a week for the medication we currently pay 200 million a week for. so nice these tories aint they?