Cyprus-Forum.com

[cyprusgrump]

I was not fortunate enough to benefit from a public school education. I was fortunate enough to have survived such without too much damage. I support the removal of charity status from such schools because such is inherently and fundamentally unfair in social terms. I support the integration of such schools in to the state system because I do not think any child needs to be put at risk of of suffering the kind of emotional damage and scarring that I believe such a system makes statistically more likely than the state school system does.

Amazing!

Somebody that posted this just a day or two ago....

Again with the 'royal we' - always a red flag for me when someone expressing their own personal opinion does so as the view of 'many'.

Now claims that his public school experience represents that of every pupil at every school in the country!

Which is utter bollox because it doesn't represent that of my daughter or the friends she made at school and is still in touch with...

...and I can assure you that I was not 'rich' at the time and we struggled to fund her education but thought at the time (and still think) the sacrifices we made were worth it.

So I call 'bollox' on several counts...

as cash starved as the comprehensive system is, the bright children excel and if there was fair chances allocated would also end up in top universities but unfortunately oxford only alocates 5% of the places to all the comprehensive schools, and the rest goes to private schools. and so does cambrgidge too. you were born a asshole and you will die one in total ignorance.

nice of you to support such a system.

Thanks for the insults, I see that is still all you've got...

[Lordo]

I was not fortunate enough to benefit from a public school education. I was fortunate enough to have survived such without too much damage. I support the removal of charity status from such schools because such is inherently and fundamentally unfair in social terms. I support the integration of such schools in to the state system because I do not think any child needs to be put at risk of of suffering the kind of emotional damage and scarring that I believe such a system makes statistically more likely than the state school system does.

Amazing!

Somebody that posted this just a day or two ago....

Again with the 'royal we' - always a red flag for me when someone expressing their own personal opinion does so as the view of 'many'.

Now claims that his public school experience represents that of every pupil at every school in the country!

Which is utter bollox because it doesn't represent that of my daughter or the friends she made at school and is still in touch with...

...and I can assure you that I was not 'rich' at the time and we struggled to fund her education but thought at the time (and still think) the sacrifices we made were worth it.

So I call 'bollox' on several counts...

as cash starved as the comprehensive system is, the bright children excel and if there was fair chances allocated would also end up in top universities but unfortunately oxford only alocates 5% of the places to all the comprehensive schools, and the rest goes to private schools. and so does cambrgidge too. you were born a asshole and you will die one in total ignorance.

nice of you to support such a system.

Thanks for the insults, I see that is still all you've got...

you want more? there is plenty more if needed.

[erolz66]

According to Wikipedia the English School is now controlled by the government and receives state grants:

The school started off as a private venture but control was transferred to the British Governor in 1930. Following independence from British occupation in 1960, control passed to the Cypriot Government. In 2007, the school's status and eligibility for state grants was challenged at the Supreme Court.[3][4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Engli ... l,_Nicosia

Very interesting. So is the English School in Nicosia state funded or not ? I have tried to track down the 2 articles cited in the wikipedia entry notes 3 and 4. I did find the earlier one here https://web.archive.org/web/20021220195 ... /news7.htm but not the later one. This article does not really say anything about how the school is funded and if it receives state funding or not. It does talk about the unique status of this school and how it does not fall under the control of the education ministry "Under existing legislation, the school is governed by a system of internal regulation, making it unaccountable to parliament. The board of governors of the school is appointed by and answerable to the Cabinet and the president.". This article also talks about "Nicholson said the Cabinet had approved a £1.5 million loan paid by the government to expand the school's infrastructure". However nothing about actual funding and if it is state funded or not or to what degree. I have not been able to locate the later article (CM your net based archiving is shit). Nor have I been able to find any English language information about "the school's status and eligibility for state grants was challenged at the Supreme Court" at all from any source. Not who brought the case, what the basis of it was or what the supreme court ruling was. This is strange and somewhat suspicious imo. I did however come across this CM article which is not unrelated to the general discussion.

https://cyprus-mail.com/2019/09/22/the- ... blishment/

For the establishment, there exists a biological imperative not to allow their offspring to stray from the path. That is why they place enormous emphasis on their children’s education. In Cyprus, the establishment’s school par excellence is the English School in Nicosia, with the highest success rates in GCEs leading to admission to universities in England and the United States.

It is, of course, no coincidence that five ministers (one of them is a junior minister) in the current administration are English School graduates – even though the school’s pupils account for just 1.4 per cent of all high-schoolers in Cyprus. That is why the elites will do everything in their power – literally everything – so that their children are enrolled into the English School.

You don't need to be "super-rich" to go to a private school. (in Cyprus at least)

No but if you are genuinely poor then you can forget it.

[Londonrake]

if it is education you are after you can do a lot worse than listening to these two beautiful minded individuals.

Are we talking about the same Varoufakis?

On his battle with the EU:

“If you cannot imagine walking out of a negotiation, you should never enter it. If you cannot fathom the idea of an impasse you might as well confine yourself to the role of a supplicant who implores the despot to grant him several privileges”

“We were divided and ultimately we were ruled.”

“As Jean-Claude Juncker, then prime minister of Luxembourg and later president of the European Commission, once said, ‘When it becomes serious, you have to lie.”

“The 61.3 per cent who voted no had to be discredited as a people led astray by opportunists,”

“Observing the European Union’s attempts to deal with the crisis is a bit like watching Othello – one wonders how our rulers can be so deluded”

“Corporatists like Robert Schuman and Jean Monnet were bent on constructing the Brussels-based bureaucracy as a democracy-free zone.”

“Greece's bailout, then Ireland's, then Portgual's, then Spain's were primarily rescue packages for French and German banks.”

“Moreover, the Eurogroup, where all the important economic decisions are taken, is a body that does not even exist in European law, that operates on the basis that the “strong do as they please while the weak suffer what they must,” that keeps no minutes of its procedures and whose only rule is that its deliberations are confidential; that is, not to be shared with Europe’s citizenry. Put bluntly, it is a setup designed to preclude any sovereignty traceable back to the people of Europe.”

“Years of crisis have culminated in a Europe that has lost legitimacy with its own citizens and credibility with the rest of the world.”

“A cynical ploy that transferred hundreds of billions of losses from the books of the French and German banks to Europe’s taxpayers was presented to the world as the manifestation of European solidarity."

[Londonrake]

Erolz. I understand your bitterness about public schools now. My Daughter went to one for 5 years and I'm familiar with the ethos. Sometimes they can be somewhat "Lord of the flies". Certainly so if you board. Somebody with your clear sensitivity would I'm sure have had a very hard time.

[erolz66]

Yet he does not advocate member states leave the EU, nor does he advocate the dissolution of the EU either. Nor reform of the EU. He advocates transformation of it. You really should, imo, try and look at all he says rather than just cut snippets , out of context, from his words that suit your agenda and ignore all the rest. Otherwise you might come across as being more interested in using propaganda techniques to support your position rather than seeking better understanding through discussion and dialogue.

[Londonrake]

Yet he does not advocate member states leave the EU, nor does he advocate the dissolution of the EU either. Nor reform of the EU. He advocates transformation of it. You really should, imo, try and look at all he says rather than just cut snippets , out of context, from his words that suit your agenda and ignore all the rest. Otherwise you might come across as being more interested in using propaganda techniques to support your position rather than seeking better understanding through discussion and dialogue.

The usual clutching at straws obfuscation. What makes you think I'm just cutting snippets? It's a good read. His views on the EU deep establishment are quite clear. IIRC his advice, hard earned from bitter experience, to May was that she shouldn't negotiate with such people. His warnings about their love of duplicitous sequencing. Well, didn't that turn out to be the case!

This is not propaganda, it's history.

You really should try and look at what he says about his experiences in dealing with the EU with an open mind. Without your usual highly prejudiced rose tinted glasses.

More on the EU: “it remains in the nature of the beast to treat the will of electorates as a nuisance that must be, somehow, negated... For all their concerns with rules, treaties, processes, competitiveness, freedom of movement, terrorism etc, only one prospect truly terrifies the EU’s deep establishment: democracy”.

Only you could turn Varoufakis's words into an advocacy of the European project. You truly do live an Orwellian existence. And of course, it will always be impossible to engage in what you perceive as "discussion and dialogue". Which is why I try mostly not to.

[erolz66]

Erolz. I understand your bitterness about public schools now. My Daughter went to one for 5 years and I'm familiar with the ethos. Sometimes they can be somewhat "Lord of the flies". Certainly so if you board. Somebody with your clear sensitivity would I'm sure have had a very hard time.

I am indeed bitter about many aspects of my personal experience at the two private schools I personally experienced. However my views on if such schools should be treated as charities are informed by a much broader range of experiences than just that. So to my views on such schools being structured in ways than make them statistically on average more likely to inflict serious damage on children than is necessary or vs the statistical average for state schools and the way they are structured. I think there is real hard and compelling evidence that supports such a view not just as an extrapolation from my own personal experiences but generically. I may well , when I have time start a thread on this subject and present my evidence for discussion, disagreement and challenge. In the mean time I can say that I seriously and sincerely believe that no child should be placed as such a degree of unnecessary risk, which for me is the basis on which I would support moves to integrate such schools in to the wider state school system. Thus this idea that if I had been irresponsible and selfish enough to have had children of my own, I would want such private education prohibited for others only after my own children had 'benefited' from such, a standard trope used by some on the right, is just nonsense in my case. If I had children I would teach them at home before sending them to such places.

[erolz66]

Yet he does not advocate member states leave the EU, nor does he advocate the dissolution of the EU either. Nor reform of the EU. He advocates transformation of it. You really should, imo, try and look at all he says rather than just cut snippets , out of context, from his words that suit your agenda and ignore all the rest. Otherwise you might come across as being more interested in using propaganda techniques to support your position rather than seeking better understanding through discussion and dialogue.

The usual clutching at straws obfuscation. What makes you think I'm just cutting snippets? It's a good read. His views on the EU deep establishment are quite clear. IIRC his advice, hard earned from bitter experience, to May was that she shouldn't negotiate with such people. His warnings about their love of duplicitous sequencing. Well, didn't that turn out to be the case!

This is not propaganda, it's history.

You really should try and look at what he says about his experiences in dealing with the EU with an open mind. Without your usual highly prejudiced rose tinted glasses.

More on the EU: “it remains in the nature of the beast to treat the will of electorates as a nuisance that must be, somehow, negated... For all their concerns with rules, treaties, processes, competitiveness, freedom of movement, terrorism etc, only one prospect truly terrifies the EU’s deep establishment: democracy”.

Only you could turn Varoufakis's words into an advocacy of the European project. You truly do live an Orwellian existence. And of course, it will always be impossible to engage in what you perceive as "discussion and dialogue". Which is why I try mostly not to.

I doubt many have read or listen to as much of Varoufakis' works as I have. Or read such works with an open a mind as I have.

Did he support the UK leaving the EU or not ? Simple question that is only necessary to ask because of the selective way you quote him. Not one you are likely to answer I suspect.

[RichardB]

Yet he does not advocate member states leave the EU, nor does he advocate the dissolution of the EU either. Nor reform of the EU. He advocates transformation of it. You really should, imo, try and look at all he says rather than just cut snippets , out of context, from his words that suit your agenda and ignore all the rest. Otherwise you might come across as being more interested in using propaganda techniques to support your position rather than seeking better understanding through discussion and dialogue.

The usual clutching at straws obfuscation. What makes you think I'm just cutting snippets? It's a good read. His views on the EU deep establishment are quite clear. IIRC his advice, hard earned from bitter experience, to May was that she shouldn't negotiate with such people. His warnings about their love of duplicitous sequencing. Well, didn't that turn out to be the case!

This is not propaganda, it's history.

You really should try and look at what he says about his experiences in dealing with the EU with an open mind. Without your usual highly prejudiced rose tinted glasses.

More on the EU: “it remains in the nature of the beast to treat the will of electorates as a nuisance that must be, somehow, negated... For all their concerns with rules, treaties, processes, competitiveness, freedom of movement, terrorism etc, only one prospect truly terrifies the EU’s deep establishment: democracy”.

Only you could turn Varoufakis's words into an advocacy of the European project. You truly do live an Orwellian existence. And of course, it will always be impossible to engage in what you perceive as "discussion and dialogue". Which is why I try mostly not to.

Good Post LR.
@Erolz66 have you had the opportunity to read Varoufakis book "Adults I the room" it is an account of his dealings with the EU in his capacity as finance minister for the Tsipras government. The title of the book comes as a result of his meetings with the European Bank ministers... Lefarge et Al... He details events which led up to Tsipras accepting the terms of the 'bailout' which as Greek finance minister he did not agree with at all... Instead advising Tsipras to call the EUs bluff and refuse to pay even suggesting that Greece leave the EU. These actions led to his being sacked by his old friend Tsipras. He suggested also that the UK should leave the EU without any deal.

Obviously there is more to this read than my brief synopsis above. But it is a very interesting read from a man who is definitely a financial expert.

The book is available on amazon or if yourself or LR would like a copy I would be more than happy to send you mine to share. I