Cyprus-Forum.com

[Lordo]

how much would it cost me in a taxi to go from mornington to brigton and how long will it take. i am stuck in mornington and i need to be elsewhere in the afternoon.

[Pyrpolizer]

Only a dumb person would believe such nonsense (that leaving means completely out of the Single market and trading on WTO rules) whatever the number of politicians who said it (each for his own reasons or his own ignorance).
Hard Brexshitters like you are an exception because that's the music you wanted to hear anyway.

The process after the Brexit vote was very well known. Negotiations for 2 years. The negotiations were carried out and were NEVER about leaving the Single market completely.

It is amazing how you Remoaners try and re-write history!

You think if you same something loudly enough, often enough and rudely enough people will think you are right and what you are saying is true...

But it isn't, the internet doesn't forget... Politicians on both sides said a vote for Leave would mean leaving all of the institutions of the EU including the ECJ and yes, The single Market.

I've posted some videos here already, even David Cameron saying we negotiate for two years then Leave on WTO terms...

Leave means leaving the EU - it is a binary in or out thing...

The evidence was clear, it was discussed everywhere for ever and the people decided to leave the EU....

Do you know understand what the average person who voted to Leave actually expected?

No of course not - but neither do you or any other Remoaner...

What we do know is that the case for both sides - including leaving The single Market. - was made clearly, even to the extent of sending a letter to every household...

...and the people voted Leave based on that information. You can't say fairer than that...

Or are you so pompous and condescending that you think the electorate are too stupid to understand and shouldn't be trusted with important decisions like the future of their country eh...?

You too are going round in circles. Politicians from both sides told you a lot of lies and I am not surprised you are on those who believed the particular lies that suited you. You still failed to show me the particular line in that brochure saying the UK will be completely out of the Single market.
Trying to grab the vote of those who voted "leave" expecting it to be with a deal, as if their vote meant the same thing as your vote to leave with no deal, is FASCISM in my vocabulary because the referendum itself trapped those people in one option.
For more information read Erol's post above.

[Lordo]

how interesting is the difference in what gove said before 2016 and at 2019. very interesting indeed. no need for words except to say you absolute kant you and your supporters.

https://twitter.com/propertyspot/status/1158720819364806659?lang=en

[erolz66]

We are finite beings living in an infinite universe, struggling to understand that universe. What we do, what we have to do, is simplify and shortcut. There is no other way. 200 million years of evolution has resulted in our brains operating in this manner. So for example when Newton sought to understand 'motion' he used a fictional model of the universe, one without things like friction, as a tool and means of trying to understand and clarify and describe an underlying phenomenon he was seeking to. So far so good. Where problems arise is when we, having created such fictionalised and simplified models of the universe, we start to then try and impose these fictionalised and simplified models on the universe itself, as if they are the actual mechanics of the universe. Doing this always end badly. Always ends in conflict, in division, into tribes representing opposed polar states, as if these two polar states are themselves a reflection of underlying reality when in fact they are us just trying to impose such a binary simplicity on a universe that simply does not operate that way. What happens when we do this is we become unable to express our individuality, because we can then only try and do so using this binary palette that is not and can not be a true reflection of reality, of our individuality or anyone else's. We become unable to express our own individuality or understand any one else's. Which leads to ever greater tribalisation around these fictional poles. Ever greater feelings that it is the 'other side' that will not listen, will not compromise, will not understand and that is wrong.

I can not express my individuality, my identity, my view or position on something like Brexit in terms of the binary states of 'leaver' or 'remainer' because such is just not a reflection or model of reality that allows me to do so in any way that can convey significant meaning. A better way of expressing my identity on such an issue, one that more closely models and reflects reality, would be to say I am 70% a remainer and 30% a leaver. My view is that a country, any country, that is in the customs union but no other aspects of the EU is 20% in the EU and 80% outside of it.

Until a couple of months ago I used to think that most if not all conflict between humans and groups of interest was down to a reality of those groups having irreconcilable differences. It is early days for me but I am starting to suspect that actually most if not all such conflict, be it between a husband and wife, or remainers and leavers is down to this habit of creating simplified models of the world in order to seek understanding and then without consciously realising it, trying to impose such models on a universe that will not and can not have such imposed on it. That the conflict is not because the two sides can not be reconciled but because we are unable to express our individuality or understand that of those with a different identity to ours because we have taken a simplified model of the universe and then tried to impose it on the universe as if it were reality. I am starting to suspect that we just do not know if our different identities can be reconciled or not because we are not able to express ours or understand others in order to even be able to establish if they can be reconciled.

This realisation has come to me very recently and very suddenly, in a kind of 'road to Damascus' way. As I say it is for me very early days but so far this realisation appears to have changed my life in dramatic, profound and positive ways to numerous to mention, from my relationship with my partner of 25 years and the conflict within that relationship to my degree of sense of despair at the state of the world I live in.

[cyprusgrump]

You too are going round in circles. Politicians from both sides told you a lot of lies and I am not surprised you are on those who believed the particular lies that suited you. You still failed to show me the particular line in that brochure saying the UK will be completely out of the Single market.

Page 8.

You can read the entire document here.

Trying to grab the vote of those who voted "leave" expecting it to be with a deal, as if their vote meant the same thing as your vote to leave with no deal, is FASCISM in my vocabulary because the referendum itself trapped those people in one option.
For more information read Erol's post above.

It was a binary vote, it was the only realistic way it could be decided.

They laid the rules out, we had a debate (many debates, millions of words, endless TV discussions, showdowns between leaders of both sides, millions spent advertising, thousands of on-street conversations), then it was put to the vote and we decided to leave.

Remoaners have created the fantasy of 'no deal' leave (aka Crashing Out Without A Deal) to represent the very thing they said would happen before the referendum.

Attempting to overturn the result of a democratically held referendum because Remoaners don't like the result - now that is fascism.

[Lordo]

I could have sworn the remainers have claimed are on target to happen and everything the brexshitters claimed will not.

so are we or are not now facing a no-deal brexit. or is that still a fantasy. we shall find out on the 17th of october. and lets see what excuse manchild comes with when he can't even present the alternative arrangements at the meeting on the 17th. than let the contest begin after the threat of no-deal has been removed. and if manchild decides to die in the ditch, than he shall.

[Lordo]

Liars and hypocrites, the lot of them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu6PIUT8M-A

Remind me again - about "democracy".

now here is a beauty for you. how is your liarometer doin?

https://twitter.com/propertyspot/status/1158720819364806659?lang=en

[Kikapu]

It is very clear Trump is coaching BJ how to handle Brexit.

Seeing the results so far, no wonder T. May ignored Trump‘s advice on how to be a bitch with the EU on Brexit, but BJ had no problem to follow Trump‘s instructions on how to be a dickhead, which he is doing a great job of being one. He is replicating what Trump does by dismissing members on his team like he changes his underwear, lie through his teeth, and ignore his responsibilities as a leader.

The question I have to Brexiteers is, are they really happy with BJ as a leader to deliver Brexit?

The guy is a complete loser who had 3 strikes against him already in the parliament. If this was a baseball game, he would be out already and back to the bench. Oh wait a minute,BJ is out without any power!

[erolz66]

It was a binary vote, it was the only realistic way it could be decided.

They way I am currently allowed to express my identity in a GE

Conservative
Labour - Tick
Lib Dem
Green
Bexit
UKIP
Monster Raving Looney Party

A different way I could be allowed to express my identity in a GE

Conservative 12%
Labour 78%
Lib Dem 62%
Green 71%
Bexit 0%
UKIP 0%
Monster Raving Looney Party 22%

I know which I think best allows me to express my real opinions and views on which party / candidate I think best represents me and that does not force a false tribaliasation on me that does not and can represent my identity / opinion with any accuracy. Yes this later system would be a bit harder to 'count' but other than that it would be a perfectly viable way of voting as far as I can see. The same approach could be used in referenda as well and I think had such been used in the last referendum much of the descent in to triablised and polarised camps could have been avoided. imo.

[erolz66]

It is very clear Trump is coaching BJ how to handle Brexit.

I personally think what does or does not happen in the UK re Brexit and how it happens will have a significant impact on if Trump does or does not secure a 2nd term. I think if we can in the UK regain a semblance of 'political sanity' for want of a better phrase, move away from demagoguery and sound bite populist politics, where truth and reason still have some meaning and relevance, then this will make Trump's chances of re election much lower. If we can not then the chances of Trump re election will be higher. Basically I see some hope in the idea that the wheels may be coming off the 'politics by demagoguery' bus here in the UK and think that, if it is indeed what is happening, will have ramifications far wider than just the UK's shores.